3. Wrong date/time on Penalty Charge Notice, then Notice to Owner is recieved 8 days later
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Author Topic: Wrong date/time on Penalty Charge Notice, then Notice to Owner is recieved 8 days later  (Read 1126 times)

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Re: Wrong date/time on Penalty Charge Notice, then Notice to Owner is recieved 8 days later
« Reply #15 on: »
Where was the van parked on 6 June at 6:31 am?
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Wrong date/time on Penalty Charge Notice, then Notice to Owner is recieved 8 days later
« Reply #16 on: »
Quote from: cp8759 on July 19, 2024, 11:28:39 pm
Where was the van parked on 6 June at 6:31 am?
That was my question too !
So far no response.
A very peculiar case.
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Re: Wrong date/time on Penalty Charge Notice, then Notice to Owner is recieved 8 days later
« Reply #17 on: »
Quote from: Incandescent on July 19, 2024, 11:09:01 pm
Quote from: H C Andersen on July 19, 2024, 08:19:47 pm
Rest of NTO pl, we need to see the wording and web code - which is the only way to access photos.
Just looked on their website, and there are no photos.
Where on the PCN or the NTO is the web code? I can't find one.

Assuming this goes to the Adjudicator, the case will be determined on the balance of probability. And right now the balance seems to be that a PCN was served on the 6th of June. To refute that you're going to need some solid evidence that your van was somewhere else on June 6th. Is there any such evidence? Job log, delivery log perhaps?
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Re: Wrong date/time on Penalty Charge Notice, then Notice to Owner is recieved 8 days later
« Reply #18 on: »
Quote from: Incandescent on July 19, 2024, 11:09:01 pm
Quote from: H C Andersen on July 19, 2024, 08:19:47 pm
Rest of NTO pl, we need to see the wording and web code - which is the only way to access photos.
Just looked on their website, and there are no photos.

Check again and let me know. I've posted them all and double checked by sending the link to my wife (no issues seeing them).
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Re: Wrong date/time on Penalty Charge Notice, then Notice to Owner is recieved 8 days later
« Reply #19 on: »
The van was on my driveway at 6:41am  and I was still in bed.
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Re: Wrong date/time on Penalty Charge Notice, then Notice to Owner is recieved 8 days later
« Reply #20 on: »
Quote from: Enceladus on July 20, 2024, 01:35:39 am
Quote from: Incandescent on July 19, 2024, 11:09:01 pm
Quote from: H C Andersen on July 19, 2024, 08:19:47 pm
Rest of NTO pl, we need to see the wording and web code - which is the only way to access photos.
Just looked on their website, and there are no photos.
Where on the PCN or the NTO is the web code? I can't find one.

Assuming this goes to the Adjudicator, the case will be determined on the balance of probability. And right now the balance seems to be that a PCN was served on the 6th of June. To refute that you're going to need some solid evidence that your van was somewhere else on June 6th. Is there any such evidence? Job log, delivery log perhaps?


I never get up before 7am and my wife could confirm. I do also keep a diary and that would show my only job that day was working in Billercay.
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Re: Wrong date/time on Penalty Charge Notice, then Notice to Owner is recieved 8 days later
« Reply #21 on: »
Quote from: francisgran on July 20, 2024, 08:26:28 am
The van was on my driveway at 6:41am  and I was still in bed.
Right. So you noW must submit a representation against the NtO on the lines I suggested earlier, If you don't respond to the NtO, you'll lose your right to take them to adjudication.
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Re: Wrong date/time on Penalty Charge Notice, then Notice to Owner is recieved 8 days later
« Reply #22 on: »
Thanks Incandescent, will do.

Are you able to see the photos posted? 
As some where having trouble finding the web code and not sure if iI've done it right.
Should be IMG_7965 in the link.

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Re: Wrong date/time on Penalty Charge Notice, then Notice to Owner is recieved 8 days later
« Reply #23 on: »
This link should have all the photos:

https://postimg.cc/gallery/Qrsb5ZGZ
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Re: Wrong date/time on Penalty Charge Notice, then Notice to Owner is recieved 8 days later
« Reply #24 on: »
Quote from: francisgran on July 20, 2024, 10:53:27 am
This link should have all the photos:

https://postimg.cc/gallery/Qrsb5ZGZ
There are no photos for the 6th June PCN on their website. Are these yours or their photos ?
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Re: Wrong date/time on Penalty Charge Notice, then Notice to Owner is recieved 8 days later
« Reply #25 on: »
They are all the photos I've taken of the PCN (front only) NTO (all sides) and location.
The council haven't provided any photos that I've seen.

Here is the direct link to the front of the PCN (let me know if you also want one of the back).

https://i.postimg.cc/05J8VBzY/IMG-7980.jpg
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Re: Wrong date/time on Penalty Charge Notice, then Notice to Owner is recieved 8 days later
« Reply #26 on: »
Quote from: francisgran on July 20, 2024, 11:14:41 am
They are all the photos I've taken of the PCN (front only) NTO (all sides) and location.
The council haven't provided any photos that I've seen.

Here is the direct link to the front of the PCN (let me know if you also want one of the back).

https://i.postimg.cc/05J8VBzY/IMG-7980.jpg
Just to be clear.
The two photos showing a blue van were taken by you on the 10th July?
There are no evidence photos taken by the Council's Civil Enforcement Officer to be found anywhere?

Be aware that the Council will likely assert that the date & time in the CEO's handheld device is synced to a reliable time server every morning at the start of the early shift, before the CEO's go on patrol.

I was hoping that the Council's evidence photos might have some indication that they were taken on the 10th July. A timestamp or in the meta data.

When you submit a formal representation against the NTO I would demand digital copies of all photos of your vehicle taken by their CEO(s), in case there are some. Also ask for a copy of the CEO's (officer HG1125) notes for the 6th June.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2024, 11:52:03 am by Enceladus »
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Re: Wrong date/time on Penalty Charge Notice, then Notice to Owner is recieved 8 days later
« Reply #27 on: »
Yes, they are the photos I took 10th July.
There is no evidence photos taken by the Council's Civil Enforcement Officer that I know of.

I sense they have omitted the photos taken by the CEO as they would be dated 10th July and would undermine there case.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2024, 03:33:40 pm by francisgran »
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Re: Wrong date/time on Penalty Charge Notice, then Notice to Owner is recieved 8 days later
« Reply #28 on: »
it's been asked before but do you or any neighbours etc have ANY  evidence the van was parked on your drive at the alleged time of contravention
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Quote from: andy_foster
Mick, you are a very, very bad man
Re: Wrong date/time on Penalty Charge Notice, then Notice to Owner is recieved 8 days later
« Reply #29 on: »
I keep a hand writen diary that would show I was in Billercay all day from 8am till 4pm and no work in the Harold Hill area but other than that, only my wife as an alibi to state I would have been at home at 6:41am on anyday including 6 June.

That said, I always thought its the responability on the Council to provide evidence like a photo and log notes and that is currently lacking.

A photo with a time/date would prove it one way or another as you see in my photo; the shutters in the shop is open and would have been closed at 6:41am
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  3. Wrong date/time on Penalty Charge Notice, then Notice to Owner is recieved 8 days later