Author Topic: Whipps Cross Road Bus Lane Fine  (Read 2611 times)

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Whipps Cross Road Bus Lane Fine
« on: »
Hi All,

Got a new fine this morning see images below and info - any help would be great!

This was for 07/07/2024 and was returning home quickly whilst my wife was in labour at a nearby hospital. (100% genuine reason).

I drove home up to the Green Man roundabout found off Whipps Cross Road and at the end of the bus lane the line breaks and i drive into what i think is ok but infact the end of the bus lane.

Awful road markings and this camera generates £1,000,000 a month for the council see articles here:

https://www.guardian-series.co.uk/news/19525536.council-rakes-1m-fines-single-east-london-bus-lane/

Also see images of the location and from the council website of my car.

What could I do to defend this?

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Re: Whipps Cross Road Bus Lane Fine
« Reply #1 on: »
What would be the easiest way to upload images?


Re: Whipps Cross Road Bus Lane Fine
« Reply #3 on: »
Fine letter here

https://ibb.co/DGhCpzJ

Re: Whipps Cross Road Bus Lane Fine
« Reply #4 on: »
We know this location very well and I/we have just won at least three cases against them very recently. We do need the VRM and PCN numbers please. When I receive them, I will draft representations after looking at the video.

2240089033; 2240293663; 2240194118. The last one quite rightly resulted in costs.

In this legislation, they must attend or the camera evidence is inadmissible. They tend not to do so.  :D

I forgot this one:

https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/waltham-forest-whipps-cross-road-e11-bus-lane-contravention/msg13266/#msg13266

https://www.ftla.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=266.0;attach=4294
« Last Edit: August 13, 2024, 09:51:47 pm by Hippocrates »
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Re: Whipps Cross Road Bus Lane Fine
« Reply #5 on: »
Hi Hippocrates

I read through the previous post and a lot of it is exactly the same. Was impressed with your knowledge!

VRM: WF68 WJV
PCN: FR63196811

The car is my wife's car and i was driving it for context. She was just about to go into labour a few hours after.

Best
JRC1234


Re: Whipps Cross Road Bus Lane Fine
« Reply #6 on: »
Also to note this was on the 07/08/2024

i also drove down the same route on the 08/08,09/08,10/08 and 11/08 whilst visiting the hospital.

This week i will find out if more letter arrive in the post hopefully no more.

Re: Whipps Cross Road Bus Lane Fine
« Reply #7 on: »
Keep us up to date please.
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Re: Whipps Cross Road Bus Lane Fine
« Reply #8 on: »
Quote
This week i will find out if more letter arrive in the post hopefully no more.

You should be able to ring the Council and ask what, if any, PCNs are outstanding against your reg.mark.
Given the state of the post these days I'd be inclined to do this.

Re: Whipps Cross Road Bus Lane Fine
« Reply #9 on: »
On the phone to them now and finding out!

Very good point to call them up! thanks so much

will come back asap

Re: Whipps Cross Road Bus Lane Fine
« Reply #10 on: »
They tried looking up and so far no others, but he wasnt 100% sure if anymore could appear.

Lets go with this one.

If i were to get another would i challenge separately with the same reasons?

Re: Whipps Cross Road Bus Lane Fine
« Reply #11 on: »


If i were to get another would i challenge separately with the same reasons?

Yes with a few adjustments to cater for the repeated PCN(s).
« Last Edit: August 14, 2024, 12:37:21 pm by Hippocrates »
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Re: Whipps Cross Road Bus Lane Fine
« Reply #12 on: »
Let me give it a couple more days and see if any other arrive will come back on and update tomorrow.

Ill call the council again and see if any more have appeared on the system.

Is There anything i can do in the meantime?

thanks for the help

Re: Whipps Cross Road Bus Lane Fine
« Reply #13 on: »
I will draft representations for you later using the previous submissions in the aforementioned cases.
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Re: Whipps Cross Road Bus Lane Fine
« Reply #14 on: »
Dear Waltham Forest

Ref: PCN: FR63196811  VRM:  WF68WJV

I make this initial challenge as follows:

1. The video evidence provided does not clearly show any signs allegedly passed or violated. Therefore, it follows that the alleged contravention is not proved.

2. The presence of a break in the solid white line within the road markings is confusing and misleading to motorists. This can contribute to unintentional lane changes. 

https://i.ibb.co/G52vZs1/IMG-9998.jpg

3. Notably, there is no clear end of bus lane sign visible. I refer to the Traffic Signs Manual Chapter Three@9.3.9.  The end of a with flow bus lane will usually be obvious through the termination of the diagram 1049A marking. If considered necessary due to observed driver behaviour, an upright sign to diagram 964 (S9 4 11, see Figure 9-5) may be sited as shown in Figure 9-1. The lane should normally be stopped short of the Stop line at traffic signal controlled junctions.  I refer to para. 9.3.13.  Where a nearside bus lane passes a junction with a major left turning flow into the side road, the line to diagram 1049A should be replaced with a broken line to diagram 1010 (see Figure 9-1). The broken line should commence 30 m in advance of the junction, and have the same width as the line to diagram 1049A. It should be accompanied by the arrow to diagram 1050 indicating a left turn (see Figure 9-6). At other junctions, the diagram 1049A marking should be terminated approximately 10 m before the junction (or at the junction if the minor road is one way towards the major road). In each case the bus lane recommences beyond the junction in combination with a marking to diagram 1010 (see Figure 9-1). It is important to ensure that the marking to diagram 1049A is terminated correctly, so that drivers turning left can move across to do so safely without needing to cross the continuous line.  Given the camera only focusses on the final 33 metres, it is arguable that  the observed behaviour will constitute  a large majority of motorists clipping the end.

Clearly, there used to be an End of Bus Lane sign. I also rely upon this High Court ruling:

R(Oxfordshire County Council) v The Bus Lane Adjudicator [2010]EWHC 894 (Admin) Mr Justice Beatson confirmed that, Para 65. The Defendant's submission that the fact that signs are prescribed or authorised does not mean they are sufficient for securing adequate information as to the effect of an order is made available to road users is clearly correct. If the signs do not in fact provide adequate information no offence is committed;


4. I put you to  strict proof that the camera used for monitoring and enforcement satisfies the criterion of admissibility of evidence at the Tribunal, as outlined in Para 7(2) of Schedule 1 of The London Local Authorities Act 1996 (as amended) and Part II.

5. Mitigating circumstances:  I was returning home quickly whilst my wife was in labour at a nearby hospital. etc etc.


In light of the above, please cancel the said PCN.

Yours faithfully

Reg. keeper

Address
« Last Edit: August 14, 2024, 09:00:41 pm by Hippocrates »
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r