3. WESTMINSTER PCN - 12R Code - Parking In a Residents Bay
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WESTMINSTER PCN - 12R Code - Parking In a Residents Bay
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Hi,

I received a PCN from Westminster Council about a week ago, I did a informal appeal which was rejected now I'm indecisive on what to do.

I found the signage to be really confusing, in the space of 3 metres they had pay and display signs and resident parking. I genuinely thought that I was parked within the pay and display zone and was legally parked. I couldn't see anything that clearly differentiated the space I was parked in to the pay and display ones right behind.

I'm not from London, so unable to go back to the site. I've looked at google maps to see the street view which I've attached and can't see any thing that identifies the differences. The bay lines are very faint on google maps.

I've attached the PCN response, photos the warden took and google street view photos, and one to show where both the signs are. I was parked where the red car was in the photo with the van behind, or where the van was in front of the silver car in the second photo. Do you think I have good grounds for a further appeal or should just pay while it's still in the discount period?

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/xlxldp2rxm0mk3hix80wq/AMARBE8vyadoUDZWG2vT9Kg?rlkey=l1l8i4eebyiwn78jfeyim65qf&st=ml4elus3&dl=0 - PCN, Photos, Council Response etc


Thanks for any advice

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« Last Edit: May 28, 2025, 12:29:45 pm by danswa101 »
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Re: WESTMINSTER PCN - 12R Code - Parking In a Residents Bay
« Reply #1 on: »
Well it seems the sign was right by your car but what's odd is the CEO hasn't take a pic of car and sign together. You can see the bay divider in one pic.

So not sure you have much to go on except some adjudicators will take a dim view of not knowing if the sign the CEO pictured is in a bay where your car was.






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Re: WESTMINSTER PCN - 12R Code - Parking In a Residents Bay
« Reply #2 on: »
Thanks, do you think it'll be worth appealing on that basis? or better to just pay?

I did try to use AI to guide me too and it gave the following points and said to appeal:

The council has not proven that the bay was a residents-only bay, as required for a 12r PCN.

The CEO’s photos do not show the full bay, start/end markings, or demarcation lines separating bay types.

No photo shows the signpost in relation to the vehicle — so it’s unclear whether the sign applied to your bay.

The council’s claim about bay demarcations is not backed up by photographic evidence.

Google Street View images show the road markings in this area were faint, worn out, or absent, supporting your claim of confusion.

Multiple signs nearby (e.g. “Resident permit holders only” and “Pay-by-phone”) could easily cause confusion for a non-resident.

but as we all know AI likes to give you an answer that you want to hear so don't want to go with that alone ;D
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Re: WESTMINSTER PCN - 12R Code - Parking In a Residents Bay
« Reply #3 on: »
This is a case often seen where the only delineator between bays with different restrictions is the double-dashed line marked on the carriageway perpendicular to the kerb. Good signing practice for situations like this is to mount the two bay signs side-by-side on a pole at the separation line for the bays, with an arrow on each sign indicating applicability.

Here total reliance is placed on the bay markings; not good. On the other hand the residents-only sign was right by the OP's car, thus indicating the OP was maybe not as diligent in looking at the signs. So there are two things that tend to balance each other out, meaning this would not be a slam-dunk win at London Tribunals (LT). As the full PCN penalty would be in play for an LT appeal, the OP needs to consider whether it would be worth taking the 'double-or-quits' gamble at LT.

Of course there may a 'technical' appeal based on Westminster mismanagement of the enforcement process, so wait a bit to see if one is suggested. There have been successful appeals recently based on unlawful demands for money when completing the reps pages on council websites.
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