Author Topic: Westminster, Code 12r – Parked in residents bay without permit, Upper Berkeley Street [F3]  (Read 52 times)

0 Members and 252 Guests are viewing this topic.

I have received a PCN from the City of Westminster and need help challenging it.

PCN number: WE66878786
Vehicle reg: DN03KTU
Contravention: Code 12r – Parked in a residents' or shared use parking place or zone without a valid virtual permit or clearly displaying a valid physical permit or voucher or pay and display ticket issued for that place where required, or without payment of the parking charges (residents bay)
Location: Upper Berkeley Street [F3]
Date & time: 30/04/2026 at 09:06

My story (brief):
I was visiting London for the first time. I parked outside the house of the person I was visiting – they are a resident. I didn't know I needed a permit. When I got back, I had this PCN. I called the council and explained I was a visitor. They said I still needed a permit, no exceptions. I asked to pay in instalments because I genuinely cannot afford £80. They refused. The agent on the phone advised me to challenge it but wouldn't tell me what to say.

I have never been to London before that day. I have since left and am now back home (west midlands).

What I have checked so far:

· The signage on Upper Berkeley Street appears clear (I can't dispute that).
· The PCN has no obvious errors in dates, amounts, registration, or code.

But I have found some possible technical issues from my own research:

1. The 28-day wording on the PCN may be wrong.
   The PCN says: "The penalty charge must be paid within the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the alleged contravention occurred."
   Under the Traffic Management Act 2004, Schedule 1, Paragraph 3(2), the 28 days runs from the date of service of the notice, not the contravention date. Is this a procedural impropriety?
2. No evidence of a virtual permit check.
   The CEO assumed no virtual permit. But did they actually check the council's system at 09:06 on 30/04/2026? I want to force them to provide a timestamped log. Without it, can the contravention be proven?
3. The location "Upper Berkeley Street [F3]" is ambiguous.
   What does [F3] mean? It is not a legally defined location in any Traffic Management Order I can find. The PCN must specify the place with certainty.
4. No grace period was allowed.
   The CEO's notes (which I haven't seen yet) do not show any observation period. As a first-time visitor, I could reasonably have been in the process of trying to buy a virtual permit by phone at 09:06.

Images of PCN (front and back):
[Front of PCN –
Send files up to 25GB. No signup. No ads. No tracking. Fast, private file sharing powered by Cloudflare.
storage.to
]
[Back of PCN –
Send files up to 25GB. No signup. No ads. No tracking. Fast, private file sharing powered by Cloudflare.
storage.to
]

Google street view images link:
Send files up to 25GB. No signup. No ads. No tracking. Fast, private file sharing powered by Cloudflare.
storage.to


Google street view link:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/?link=https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5158099,-0.1580482,29a,90y,127.34h,91.23t/data%3D!3m5!1e1!3m3!1s6Im5Gu3kVJrujWsjSim-mA!2e0!6shttps:%252F%252Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%252Fv1%252Fthumbnail%253Fpanoid%253D6Im5Gu3kVJrujWsjSim-mA%2526w%253D900%2526h%253D600%2526ll%253D51.515810,-0.158048%2526yaw%253D127.341812%2526pitch%253D-1.229111%2526thumbfov%253D112%2526cb_client%253Dgmm.iv.ios?g_ep%3DCAISEjI2LjE2LjAuODk4OTU0MjE1MBgAIIGBASpSLDk0Mjk3Njk5LDEwMDgwODUwOCw5NDI4NDQ5OSw5NDIzMTE4OCw5NDI4MDU2OCw0NzA3MTcwNCw5NDIxODY0MSw5NDI4MjEzNCw5NDI4Njg2OUICR0I%253D%26skid%3De5b4545a-5e1d-4f1e-b665-2fbfc14cf59f&apn=com.google.android.apps.maps&afl=https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5158099,-0.1580482,29a,90y,127.34h,91.23t/data%3D!3m5!1e1!3m3!1s6Im5Gu3kVJrujWsjSim-mA!2e0!6shttps:%252F%252Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%252Fv1%252Fthumbnail%253Fpanoid%253D6Im5Gu3kVJrujWsjSim-mA%2526w%253D900%2526h%253D600%2526ll%253D51.515810,-0.158048%2526yaw%253D127.341812%2526pitch%253D-1.229111%2526thumbfov%253D112%2526cb_client%253Dgmm.iv.ios?g_ep%3DCAISEjI2LjE2LjAuODk4OTU0MjE1MBgAIIGBASpSLDk0Mjk3Njk5LDEwMDgwODUwOCw5NDI4NDQ5OSw5NDIzMTE4OCw5NDI4MDU2OCw0NzA3MTcwNCw5NDIxODY0MSw5NDI4MjEzNCw5NDI4Njg2OUICR0I%253D%26skid%3Df6eefed9-df0b-4496-b256-2ae1ac447a92&isi=585027354&ibi=com.google.Maps&ibi=com.google.Rzimuth&ibi=com.google.Azimuth&ibi=com.google.Bzimuth&ibi=com.google.Czimuth&ibi=com.google.Dzimuth&ius=comgooglemapsurl&ifl=https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5158099,-0.1580482,29a,90y,127.34h,91.23t/data%3D!3m5!1e1!3m3!1s6Im5Gu3kVJrujWsjSim-mA!2e0!6shttps:%252F%252Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%252Fv1%252Fthumbnail%253Fpanoid%253D6Im5Gu3kVJrujWsjSim-mA%2526w%253D900%2526h%253D600%2526ll%253D51.515810,-0.158048%2526yaw%253D127.341812%2526pitch%253D-1.229111%2526thumbfov%253D112%2526cb_client%253Dgmm.iv.ios?g_ep%3DCAISEjI2LjE2LjAuODk4OTU0MjE1MBgAIIGBASpSLDk0Mjk3Njk5LDEwMDgwODUwOCw5NDI4NDQ5OSw5NDIzMTE4OCw5NDI4MDU2OCw0NzA3MTcwNCw5NDIxODY0MSw5NDI4MjEzNCw5NDI4Njg2OUICR0I%253D%26skid%3D9d400720-c158-4759-8596-90de95828d8c&cid=7177463979449001589&_osl=https://maps.app.goo.gl/iEvBCzWByL2EaLGo9&_icp=1


What I need help with:

· Are there any other technical flaws (e.g., missing wording on the back, CEO photo issues, traffic order problems)?


I have not paid anything yet. The PCN was served on 30/04/2026, so the 14-day reduced period ends on 14/05/2026.

Thank you in advance for any help.

Share on Bluesky Share on Facebook


So why didn't the person you were visiting tell you that you needed a permit to park ? They have to purchase the visitor permit, not you.

Anyway, to answer your points we need you to (1) post the actual PCN all sides, with name and address redacted, and (2) post a GSV link to the exact location you parked.

So,
Point 1
No not really, because the PCN is served to the car when it is already in contravention. Years ago there was an issue because PCNs didn't have a date on them, just the date of the contravention, but that was sorted out in the High Court.
Point 2
They have hand-held terminals that can check the register, hence the PCN. Remember this is minor civil law not a murder trial !
Point 3
Locum (location of the alleged contravention) is very important with postal (Regulaton 10) PCNs, less so with Regulation 9 PCNs, those served to the vehicle. You are supposed to know where your car is parked, but if the location is obviously very wrong, then yes, it is grounds for cancellation
Point 4
No observation or grace period is required by law.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 11:27:42 pm by Incandescent »


Thank you for your reply. I appreciate the honest feedback.

To answer your question: the person I was visiting didn't tell me about a permit because they assumed I knew – they've lived in London for years and forgot that a first-time visitor wouldn't know the rules. I now understand that they should have purchased a visitor permit for me. That was my mistake, and I own that.

I have now uploaded the PCN (front and back) and the Google Street View link as requested.

Given what you've said about points 1, 2, and 4 likely not being winners, I'd be grateful if you could look at the actual PCN and the location (opposite Nobu Hotel) 71, Berkeley and tell me:

1. Is there any procedural error on this specific PCN that I've missed – even a small one?
2. Does the GSV show any possible issue with signage or bay markings that could be challenged?
3. Should I still request the Traffic Management Order for "Upper Berkeley Street [F3]" to test location specificity, or is that a waste of time?

I genuinely cannot afford the £80, but I also don't want to ignore this and end up with £160 + bailiffs. If after seeing the PCN and GSV the experts here think I have no realistic chance, I will borrow the money and pay the £80 before the 14 days are up.

Thank you again for your time.

Here is the sign for the bay that I assume you didn't look for when parking; is my assumption correct ?
Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.
Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps. · maps.app.goo.gl

Outside the hours on the sign, parking is free and available to all, which is amazing for a location in central London !

Can you look at your link you posted, because all it brings up is the GSV view, there is nothing for the PCN. For posting up a better, (shorter !!!) link, click on the three vertical dots, in the black box top left of the view. CLick on the third option ('share or embed image'), then click on the 'Copy Link'. This will put the link on your Clipboard and you can then past it into your thread.

So all you're now missing is the PCN.

We generally always recommend submitting representations against a PCN, because the council reply sometimes provides a path to a robust appeal that would win at adjudication. However if you cannot contemplate risking the full PCN penalty, it might be best to pay the discount now.

Thank you for posting the sign. You're right – I didn't look for it properly. I was a first-time visitor to London, focused on finding the house, and I completely missed the sign. That's my fault, and I own it.

I now understand that outside the hours shown (8.30am – 8.30pm, Mon-Sun), parking is free for anyone. But my contravention was at 09:06, which is inside those hours, so the sign applies.

My question to you now:
Given the sign is clear, the PCN has no obvious errors (as far as I can see), and I've admitted I didn't look for the sign – do I have any realistic ground left to challenge this PCN?

I asked earlier about the Traffic Management Order or the location code "[F3]" being vague. Is that worth pursuing, or would an adjudicator laugh it out?

The honest truth: I don't have £80. I would have to borrow it. But if you experts tell me I have no realistic chance of winning at tribunal, then I will borrow the money and pay the £80 before the 14-day deadline (which is 14th May 2026). I don't want to end up owing £160 plus bailiff fees.

Please give it to me straight. Thank you for your patience.

If you don't pay or submit reps, the council will serve a Notice to Owner on the owner as recorded on the Registration Certificatge (V5C). So the next question is - are you the owner.I ask because it is the vehicle owner that has legal responsibility for dealing with council PCNs, not the driver.

The discount option is lost when a NtO is served because it is after 28 days have elapsed since service of the PCN

I have to say I wonder how you afford to run a car at all if you haven't got the £80 !!

I am not the registered owner of the car, just an added driver.

I am not the registered owner of the car, just an added driver.
This means you have no role in the legal process, and liability for the PCN rests with the person who owns the car, so you need to tell him/her about the PCN. You can submit informal representations or pay the discount, but if matters get to the Notice to Owner stage, he/her will get it via the post and if the V5C Registration Certificate address is out-of-date, matters could get complicateed.