Author Topic: West Suffolk - Parked in a restricted street - Angel Hill, Bury St Edmunds  (Read 1115 times)

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Good Afternoon All,
Whilst I am used to contesting private car parking fines and using the information on MSE Forums to do so I am unsure what to do with a recent Council issued PCN.

The location of the 'contravention' I have been parking at for 20 years and never recieved a ticket until now.

There are signs around nearby pathways near to where I parked which make sense as to not block the area for traffic to pass through but not directly at the specific place I parked.

The date I parked was 14th January and recieved a ticket on my windscreen. I appealed on the 5th February as keeper not driver that there was not sufficient signage in view within the images provided with the PCN.

I received a response on the 22nd March dismissing my appeal stating I cannot appeal again until the Notice to Owner has been issued. This was issued to the lease company on 29th April requesting payment by 30th May and a response to appeal within 28 days (I received on 13th May)

I have today received another Notice to Keeper via the lease company dated 20th May requesting payment by 20th June or to appeal with 28 days. Not sure why it's been re-sent before the original has expired.

Representation should be submitted directly via the council website. What is the best way to do this considering my initial appeal was rejected? I have images of the area I parked which show there isn't a sign specifically at that spot with other cars parking there.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/qnoscEf8R6dDE5cC9






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Please read this
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
and update your post accordingly.

No good without sight of documents, sorry. PCN, NtO, your reps, their response.

If your car is leased, the first Notice to Owner is sent to them. They can then submit reps on the basis they are a hire company and provide your name and address. The first NtO is then cancelled and a second one sent to the name and address they have provided. All this is standard stuff, routine in fact. Is the NtO you have in your hand addressed to you and is the address correct in every respect.


All your links are set to Private, so nobody can look at them. Please release them.

All links should now be accessible

So, using GSV, please tell use exactly where you parked. A brief look shows signs with the "No Waiting" symbol all around this area, so I have to say, I don't think you have a strong case.  You say you have been parking in this area for 20 years, but was it always in the same place you parked that got you a PCN ?

I was parked where the black car is in the google street view link with a whole row of cars there. Got the PCN here and have always parked there, never around the outside where the no waiting signs are.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2024, 09:42:04 am by thelegendofyrag »

Those No Waiting signs also tell you that you are in a Restricted Zone, and would seem to be repeaters and if there is a zone then the entrances to it must be signed. The signs normally say something like "Restricted parking zone. Parking in marked bays only", so there must be a TRO for this and entry signs are obligatory. It means they don't have to paint ugly yellow lines all over the place.

I suggest you submit an informal challenge stating that you have parked there for over 20 years without getting a penalty, so were astonished to receive one. Also point out that if the location is indeed a Restricted Parking Zone it should have the entrances to the zone marked by clear signs, but there seem to be none.


Ok thanks, Yeah there’s no ‘entry signs’ as they are located around the perimeter of the memorial which would make sense so as to not block that area for traffic to drive around. The space in front where I’ve and many others park is directly off the road so not blocking anything and no signs upon entry.

Ok thanks, Yeah there’s no ‘entry signs’ as they are located around the perimeter of the memorial which would make sense so as to not block that area for traffic to drive around. The space in front where I’ve and many others park is directly off the road so not blocking anything and no signs upon entry.
Principal traffic order: https://store.traffweb.app/suffolk/documents/parkmap/sched/St%20Edmundsbury%20Order.pdf
Amending traffic order: https://store.traffweb.app/suffolk/documents/parkmap/sched/St%20Edmundsbury%20sealed%20CPE%20Order.pdf
Map tile: https://store.traffweb.app/suffolk/documents/parkmap/msched/EA63_rv0_5.pdf

@thelegendofyrag the zone is not signed correctly, looking at the map tile the restriction should start at this junction: https://maps.app.goo.gl/2YVhYJkvZz1K9kts9

But it doesn't, you can turn right and then you encounter this solitary sign on the nearside: https://maps.app.goo.gl/7TPKouLaVRJRKyC48

There is also a zone entry sign here: https://maps.app.goo.gl/AsJtnpGNsShPA985A

It would be helpful to know where you entered the zone. It is certainly arguable that the zone entry sign on Angel Hill is placed at the wrong location.

As far as I can work out you were parked here: https://maps.app.goo.gl/6aQeQxcrjcskdQ1a9

So, which zone entry sign did you pass, the one an Angel Hill itself or the one on Crown Street? Would you be able to pop back and get us an updated picture?

Also how long were you there for, and what were you doing? The informal rejection says there's a loading restriction in place but as far as I can see that's nonsense, it's just a waiting restriction.

Also the dates stated on the NTO are wrong, the 28 day payment period expires on 18 June. Please post both sides of the original PCN and the remaining pages of the NTO so that we can check for further issues.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Ah, so there are entry signs. I wonder why I didn't see any ! So as I suspected, the signs around the square are repeaters. The repeater signs can be seen all over the place, but if you don't know the zone parking conditions then I suppose you can make a mistake where you park

I've actually been here and parked on this square as I recall, whilst on holiday a few years ago !

Hi, I entered from Angel hill turning right off Northgate Street then drove straight ahead and park directly in front of the memorial. They stated in their reply to my appeal that they cannot place signs on the memorial so they are only around the sides where the path is.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2024, 08:51:52 am by thelegendofyrag »

Also how long were you there for, and what were you doing? The informal rejection says there's a loading restriction in place but as far as I can see that's nonsense, it's just a waiting restriction.

Also the dates stated on the NTO are wrong, the 28 day payment period expires on 18 June. Please post both sides of the original PCN and the remaining pages of the NTO so that we can check for further issues.
Please could you answer the above?

Also are you able to go and check if the zone entry sign an Angel Hill is still visible? Updated photos would help.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Also how long were you there for, and what were you doing? The informal rejection says there's a loading restriction in place but as far as I can see that's nonsense, it's just a waiting restriction.

Also the dates stated on the NTO are wrong, the 28 day payment period expires on 18 June. Please post both sides of the original PCN and the remaining pages of the NTO so that we can check for further issues.
Please could you answer the above?

Also are you able to go and check if the zone entry sign an Angel Hill is still visible? Updated photos would help.

I was parked no longer than 30-mins, went into the town to the bank got a coffee and went back to the car. I must have literally just missed the ticket being issued.

I have been back to BSE over the weekend. The sign is there but I only notice it now as I am aware it's there. It's not obvious as your turning right as I wouldn't normally be looking left whilst turning right.

The rest of the NTO dated 20th May is linked below.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Fup9UxsGu_wwpDuVQDQmCAsYg_OWQAgx/view?usp=drive_link

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1t4Zb7gaDItwLU5tAmyA0M7LM5KlWYV21/view?usp=drive_link

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1coQrt9xF-RhQg9LFakbImis3nLx0PrzJ/view?usp=drive_link

I think there is a good case to be made for incorrect positioning of the sign and inadequacy of signs. Signs must reflect the Traffic Regulation Order, but it doesn't because the RPZ starts immediately where you turned right.