Author Topic: Wardour Street - Parking sign is not displayed clearly  (Read 382 times)

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Wardour Street - Parking sign is not displayed clearly
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Hi all, I just want to gather some thoughts on this and see if I'm actually liable to pay for this PCN... and wondering if I should wait for the NtO and appeal again

Basically, I have parked my car on Wardour Street at 21:30 thinking it's some usual parking space where you don't need to pay after 18:30, but it turns out there was a "residents permit only" parking sign in between two portable toilet. Those toilets are almost same height as the sign, and 100% would not be able to see from where I parked (certainly not from driver seat too), I doubt people going to see it even walking by the street cuz nobody would expect to find a parking sign in between 2 toilets. So I made an appeal and I got rejected, without any explanations, just "carried out a review of your case and considered all of the information you provided but, on this occasion, I am unable to cancel the PCN"

I felt this was extremely unfair and felt like a scam. This was the appeal letter I sent:

"I am writing to formally challenge the aforementioned parking ticket on the grounds of unclear and inadequate signage pertaining to the residential parking restrictions in the area where the contravention is alleged to have occurred.

On the evening in question, I parked my car at around 21:20, and diligently searched for any signs or road markings indicating parking restrictions. It's a common practice for me to ensure that I am in compliance with parking regulations to avoid any inadvertent violations. My understanding, based on the general parking rules in the surrounding areas, was that parking bays do not require payment after 6:30 PM. Given the lack of visible signage or road markings to the contrary, I deemed it safe to park in this bay.

Upon parking, I took extra precaution by walking approximately 10 meters towards Old Compton Street to look for any signs that might indicate different parking restrictions for this particular bay. This effort was above and beyond the necessary, especially since my actual destination was a restaurant in China Town, which is in the opposite direction of Old Compton Street. Despite this extra effort, I was unable to find any signs indicating that this was a residential permit holder only parking bay.

The situation was further exacerbated by the presence of two mobile toilets which significantly obscured the visibility of the "Residence Parking Pay" sign that I later came to know existed. The photograph captured by the enforcement officer showcases the mobile toilets but not the sign, underscoring the inherent visibility issue.

Moreover, the lack of road markings, which are a common feature in other residential parking areas to indicate parking restrictions, further contributed to the misunderstanding.

I have enclosed photographs from my driver's side perspective showing the obscured signage and the absence of road markings. The darkness at 9 PM further hampered the visibility of the sign, making it highly unreasonable to expect compliance under such circumstances.

I believe the aforementioned points highlight a procedural impropriety on the part of the enforcement authority, warranting the cancellation of this ticket. I am willing to provide any further information or attend a hearing if necessary. I understand the importance of parking regulations and always strive to adhere to them. However, under the circumstances described, the lack of clear and visible signage led to an unintentional infraction."

PCN:



Photos from their council:

(see how the sign is situated in the middle of the toilets)


(see where my car positioned with the toilet.. I definitely didnt expect there's a sign in between those toilet..)



Photos I took on the night, just to prove there's no way for me to notice the sign at all, especially it's dark and close to where everyone is urinating.








The rejection email I got:





Any advice or thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thanks everyone...
« Last Edit: September 28, 2023, 10:17:23 pm by cp8759 »

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Re: Wardour Street - Parking sign is not displayed clearly
« Reply #1 on: »
A very, very, brief, almost terse response.  This could be considered a 'failure to consider', but we need to see your reps to check.

As to the visibility of the sign, one does have to wonder why the council plinked down two toilets either side making the sign virtually invisible from anywhere apart from a direct frontal view. This could win at adjudication, but it's not a slam-dunk win, in my opinion.

Can you post up the back of the PCN, please, there are sometimes fatal errors in the small print.

Re: Wardour Street - Parking sign is not displayed clearly
« Reply #2 on: »
Hey thanks for the reply. I’m new here, what do you mean by reps? The appeal I sent to council initially was the long message i included at the first message if that’s what you meant.

This is the back of the PCN ticket

« Last Edit: September 28, 2023, 10:18:30 pm by cp8759 »

Re: Wardour Street - Parking sign is not displayed clearly
« Reply #3 on: »
Quote
I’m new here, what do you mean by reps? The appeal I sent to council initially was the long message i included at the first message if that’s what you meant.

That's what Incandescent meant. To be pedantic on terminology: for PCNs affixed to vehicle, there are three stages
1) make an informal challenge or  informal reps (representations) against PCN: may be made by the driver - that's what you've done
Then, if rejected,
2) wait for the NtO (Notice to Owner) and make formal reps against NtO - may only be made by the owner (special rules apply if registered keeper is company or leasing company) - or a person authorised in writing by the owner.
Then, if rejected by Notice of Rejection of Representations. the way is open to register an appeal to the appropriate tribunal, for which forms are enclosed with the NoRR.


Yoiu have until 5th Oct.(by my calculation) to decide whether to pay the discount or wait for the NtO.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2023, 07:11:35 pm by John U.K. »

Re: Wardour Street - Parking sign is not displayed clearly
« Reply #4 on: »
Unable to cancel = fettered discretion. But this depends on the OP's representations.

See this one which gives a fair idea of what the Council must say:-

https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1Iarj9u0rW4mxIqpbeg5beRI7xMYq98i8

I presume the OP put forward grounds of inadequate signage. If so, the Council's response is sadly lacking.

Mike

Re: Wardour Street - Parking sign is not displayed clearly
« Reply #5 on: »
@MMV
 
Quote
I presume the OP put forward grounds of inadequate signage.

OP's grounds are in the opening post.

Re: Wardour Street - Parking sign is not displayed clearly
« Reply #6 on: »
OK, so if the OP is willing to stand his ground, representations should be submitted against an Notice to Owner under the statutory grounds of "procedural impropriety".

Frankly, I have never in all my years on Pepipo and now this forum,  seen such a contemptuous response to an informal challenge which was very detailed.  They are basically saying "boll**ks to you" defying you to take them to adjudication and thus risk the full PCN penalty. 

Re: Wardour Street - Parking sign is not displayed clearly
« Reply #7 on: »
Yea ok thanks everyone for the thoughts. Looks like their reply is really some bs... I guess I will wait for the NtO to be sent and make a formal appeal then, the position of the sign (or the toilets) are just ridiculous and I dont think I would ever give in to such nonsense