Author Topic: TFL fine for parking on Red route  (Read 204 times)

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SaschaVW

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TFL fine for parking on Red route
« on: April 04, 2024, 11:42:46 am »
This post was originally posted on Pepipoo (thank you Ivan for re-directing me here!)
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=153824


Hi,
Iíve just had a fine for parking on a red route - Iíve been parking there for months (itís opposite my flat) and never realised it was a red route.
My car is the red mini and when driving into the bay Iíve never noticed the red lines. Iíve been cautious about the residents parking zone so know I canít park in other bays past this point.
As you will see from the photos, there is a sign (right in front of my car!) but Iíve just never spotted it - I know this is not a defence and I'm probably banged to rights.
Can I challenge based on the markings or is the fact the sign is there sufficient?
Thanks!!

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Hippocrates

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Re: TFL fine for parking on Red route
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2024, 11:53:24 am »
Wait for the wizard to advise.
There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply in view of some adjudicators' lack of knowing what they ought to know through no fault of their own.

"Hippocrates"

cp8759

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Re: TFL fine for parking on Red route
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2024, 11:12:48 pm »
@SaschaVW you can challenged based on a lot more than that, but start by showing us the PCN please. See the guidance here on how to post images properly.
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative councillor, this means some people think I am "scum". I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

SaschaVW

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Re: TFL fine for parking on Red route
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2024, 10:00:52 am »
Hi - great news - thank you so much. Please see image here of PCN (I hope I've done it correctly!)


cp8759

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Re: TFL fine for parking on Red route
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2024, 11:03:58 pm »
TFL photos:









I have ordered the GLA sides roads designation order and the traffic order, in the meantime the arguments that can be deployed at the tribunal (but should be kept in reserve for now) are:

1) PCSO uniform not compliant,
2) The copy of the PCN that they produce at the tribunal is not a true copy of the original, as per Vanessa Price v Nottingham City Council (NG00044-2201, 7 March 2022) and Tahir Hamid v London Borough of Waltham Forest (2220519865, 9 August 2022)
3) The notice of rejection is ambiguous as per:

Nayeem Haque v Transport for London (2220767288, 15 November 2022)
Mike Welch v Transport for London (2230428700, 18 November 2023)
Lubavitch Synagogue v Transport for London (2230535074, 5 February 2024)
Commercial Plant Services Ltd v Transport for London (2240018512, 12 February 2024)
Mathew Mathai v Transport for London (2240062219, 15 March 2024)

For now, can you please confirm whether you're the registered keeper and have the V5C? If so, is the address on the V5C up to date?
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative councillor, this means some people think I am "scum". I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

SaschaVW

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Re: TFL fine for parking on Red route
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2024, 09:36:33 am »
Thanks so much for your help with this - it's so very appreciated.
Yes I am the registered owner and the V5 has the correct address on.

cp8759

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Re: TFL fine for parking on Red route
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2024, 06:14:28 pm »
If we don't get the traffic order & designation order before 30 April, start by making an informal representation on the TFL website basically saying that the signage must be inadequate as you never spotted it. Write a draft and put it on here for review before sending it.
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative councillor, this means some people think I am "scum". I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

SaschaVW

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Re: TFL fine for parking on Red route
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2024, 01:17:26 pm »
Hi,

Sorry this is late, been hectic with work, realised need to get appeal in today! If someone can check it then fab, totally understand if not and will submit as per the below knowing that we can add to the challenge later on.

Proposed challenge:

I am writing to appeal against the PCN I received on 3rd April for parking on a red route.

The reasons for my appeal are:

1. I had no awareness this was a red route, if I had know I would not have parked there. The marking on the road are not clear, and as a car was parked in front the red lines in front of that car were not visible to me when driving into the space. Whilst I acknowledge there was a sign next to the car, it is perpendicular to it and not in front, so therefore I did not see it when driving into the space. As I had no awareness the side road was a red route, I had no cause to look for the sign. I was aware of the residents parking bays and thought this was a bay not covered by these restrictions, I had no reason to look for further parking restrictions. I therefore consider that the signage was inadequate.
2. My flat is the the block of flats on the other side of Lower Richmond Road, there is unrestricted parking on Manor Road and surrounding roads, so I absolutely not have parked on Marksberry Avenue if I had known it was a red route.
3. The only reason I had parked on Marksberry Avenue is due to the extensive roadworks outside my flat, undertaken by TFL, these works have been delayed and caused much delay and traffic pollutions to me and my fellow neighbours. I therefore parked on Marksberry avenue purely to try and avoid the excessive traffic on Lower Richmond Road caused by these road works and ongoing delays.


Kind regards


cp8759

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Re: TFL fine for parking on Red route
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2024, 02:58:07 pm »
@SaschaVW the deadline is 30 April, not sure why you thought it was the 16th?

It's fine if you've sent that already, but at the notice to owner stage please do not make representations without checking with us first, it's best not to rush things.
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative councillor, this means some people think I am "scum". I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

SaschaVW

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Re: TFL fine for parking on Red route
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2024, 08:03:04 am »
Ah sorry - I think I got confused from when the 14 days was up to pay the £80 - not the deadline for the appeal.
Will next time wait for your advice - thanks so much it's so very appreciated.
I will let you know when I hear back.
Many thanks

cp8759

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« Last Edit: May 03, 2024, 04:19:09 pm by cp8759 »
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative councillor, this means some people think I am "scum". I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

SaschaVW

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Re: TFL fine for parking on Red route
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2024, 04:08:36 pm »
I've had a response to my appeal - it hasn't really made any reference to the points I raised and talks a lot abut loading which I didn't raise.

The letter is dated 2 May but I have not received it until today (14 May).

Any guidance on next steps would be very much appreciated.

Thanks for all of your assistance so far.



« Last Edit: Yesterday at 05:15:10 pm by cp8759 »

cp8759

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Re: TFL fine for parking on Red route
« Reply #12 on: Yesterday at 05:16:10 pm »
@SaschaVW just wait for the notice to owner. I take it the address on the V5C is up to date?
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative councillor, this means some people think I am "scum". I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

SaschaVW

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Re: TFL fine for parking on Red route
« Reply #13 on: Today at 10:06:08 am »
Ok will do! Yes the address is up to date, not received so far. Will let you know when it comes through. Many thanks!