Author Topic: Waltham Forest, 31 Yellow Junction Box ticket, Lea Bridge Road and Riggs Approach  (Read 299 times)

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My car is the blue BMW, PF08 GZU. Guy in front slams on the brakes for no reason, trapping me and pink car behind in the junction box. Clearly loads of space in front of him to move into but for whatever reason traps us inside the junction box so I get the ticket and probably him too.

Unfortunately was not at home last few days so just seen it this morning when I got back, have until Tuesday to pay up or appeal. Planned appeal was to say - he slams on the brakes, I never come to a complete stop either so there's no offence to start with but if there is, it's unavoidable emergency braking due to unforeseen circumstances.

Google map location is here -
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Appreciate any help you kind people can provide, even if it's just advice saying to pay up.

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I'm pretty sure you never stop moving until the camera zooms out - which coincides with the white VW starting to move off.

In which case no contravention as you can't commit a stopping offence without stopping.

You also did a big favour to the red Nissan behind you by continuously moving so they haven't committed a contravention either (it's only an offence so have to stop due to a stationary vehicle).

unfortunately unless the pink/red car driver is on FTLA or MSE I fear he's going to get and pay a fine 😒
Quote from: andy_foster
Mick, you are a very, very bad man

I'm pretty sure you never stop moving until the camera zooms out - which coincides with the white VW starting to move off.

In which case no contravention as you can't commit a stopping offence without stopping.

You also did a big favour to the red Nissan behind you by continuously moving so they haven't committed a contravention either (it's only an offence so have to stop due to a stationary vehicle).

Thanks, was pretty sure that was the case. Played it at 0.25x speed and the wheels are constantly in motion even if it's tiny. How would you appeal this?

AI came up with this:

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing to formally challenge the above Penalty Charge Notice issued on 24th March, and I respectfully request that it be cancelled on the following grounds.

Ground 1 – The contravention did not occur

Having reviewed the CCTV footage available online, I do not believe the footage shows my vehicle stopping within the yellow box junction at any point. Whilst my vehicle was moving slowly due to the vehicle ahead, my wheels were in continuous motion throughout. The offence of contravening a yellow box junction requires the vehicle to have stopped. As this did not occur, the PCN has been issued in error and should be cancelled.

I would draw your attention to the footage at the relevant timestamps, which I believe demonstrate that my wheels were moving at all times while within the box. I would respectfully ask that this footage be reviewed carefully before any decision is made.

Ground 2 – In the alternative, any stop was involuntary and beyond my control

Should you take the view that my vehicle did momentarily stop, I would submit as an alternative ground that this was entirely involuntary and caused by the sudden and unpredictable behaviour of the vehicle directly ahead of me.

I entered the junction when the exit was clear and it was lawful to do so. The vehicle ahead then braked abruptly and without warning. The CCTV footage supports this, as it shows clear open road ahead of that vehicle at the point it slowed — demonstrating no legitimate reason for it to have done so. I had no opportunity to avoid the situation and at no point made a voluntary decision to stop within the box.

The offence requires either that the driver entered without a clear exit, or made a voluntary decision to stop. Neither applies here. I entered lawfully, and any momentary stop was forced upon me by the actions of another driver, which numerous Traffic Penalty Tribunal decisions have recognised as a valid defence.

For the avoidance of doubt, I also formally request a copy of the full CCTV footage under a Subject Access Request should this representation not succeed at this stage.

I trust that upon reviewing the footage in light of the above, you will agree that this PCN should be cancelled. I look forward to your response.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2026, 04:21:38 pm by ybism »

Submit representations to WF as follows (do it online and take a screenshot when you do so).

EDIT - posted this before I saw your (or rather, AI's) attempt. I'd go with my version as it's more concise and also the second ground you included isn't really relevant or a valid defence and by including it gives WF a chances to focus on that in their rejection letter rather than the real issue at stake.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I submit representations against this PCN on the grounds that there was no contravention.

Having carefully reviewed the video footage you have provided, it is clear that my vehicle never stops moving as it traverses the box junction.  It proceeds through the box junction continuously, sometimes at a very low speed, without ever coming to a complete stop. At the end of the video, the camera operator zooms out which coincides with the white car in front of mine moving off (and so there can also be no contravention from this point either as the vehicle preventing my vehicle's immediate exit from the box junction is not stationary).

As stopping is a necessary condition for a box junction offence to have been committed, as is having to stop due to the presence of stationary vehicles, it follows that no contravention has occurred in this instance and the PCN must be cancelled.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2026, 04:30:27 pm by MrChips »