Author Topic: Waltham Forest - 31 Entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited  (Read 887 times)

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costs application?
vexatious?
Costs to them are trivial when considered as a percentage of the total penalties revenue. Only 1% of PCN recipients take the matter to adjudication. So even if they lost every case at adjudication, they'd still be quids-in.

TESCO effect
every little helps
Quote from: andy_foster
Mick, you are a very, very bad man

Hi,

So assistance with next steps please. I assume the adjudicator website takes text and pictures so I'll structure as below. Also is it worth complaining about the response in the appeal or is that just pointless noise on my part?



I am appealing against the PCN issued by Waltham Forest for "Entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited".
As per my diagrams and explanation to them 'The contravention did not occur. The car did not stop in the box junction "due to the presence of stationary vehicles" as required for the offence, but to allow pedestrians to cross.'

Paragraph 11(1) in Part 7 of Schedule 9 to the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016 makes it clear that the offence is stopping within the box "due to the presence of stationary vehicles". This did not occur as shown below

My car is 4.6 metres long.

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This is a screenshot of where the car in front stopped: -

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This is a view from google maps with measurements to show there is ample space for my car to fit. It could either have driven directly forwards or even towards the righthand side.

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In addition, I would like to complain about the response from the council. The legislation makes it clear that they should "consider the representations and any supporting evidence which the recipient provides" and that the handling of decisions is a "quasi-judicial function". From this I would expect them to carefully consider my point under the legislation. I do not believe they did this, indeed the 'custom' portion of their template response rejection just stated "Please be advised that a contravention is committed if any part of the vehicle including either the front/back wheels are stationary in the box regardless of the length of time involved. The CCTV footage confirms the vehicle was stationary in the box junction." This obviously goes no way to addressing my argument bearing no relation to it.

Regards,

John

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Quote
Please be advised that a contravention is committed if any part of the vehicle including either the front/back wheels are stationary in the box regardless of the length of time involved.
A total mis-statement of the law, (as usual). Only if the driver enters the box and has to stop in it due to the presence of stationary vehicles, is a contravention committed.

You'll need to take it to the tribunal. My view is you'll win.but you risk the whole fine. If you want I will email you over the skeleton argument Ivan did for me (I don't think he would have any objections to me doing This). You have basically got to change the details where needed but it'll give you a layout for how to argue it at the tribunal. Drop me a pm if you want this.

Adjudicator went with my argument.

Adjudicator went with my argument.
Please post the case number so wew can read the adjudicators reasoning. This all helps with future cases.

Case Details
Case reference   2250059378
Appellant   John Saxton
Authority   London Borough of Waltham Forest
VRM   KM69UJO
PCN Details
PCN   FR64089158
Contravention date   22 Nov 2024
Contravention time   15:12:00
Contravention location   Hoe St / Selborne Rd
Penalty amount   GBP 130.00
Contravention   Entering and stopping in a box junction
Referral date   -
Decision Date   02 Apr 2025
Adjudicator   Philippa Alderson
Appeal decision   Appeal allowed
Direction   
cancel the Penalty Charge Notice and the Enforcement Notice.

Reasons   
The Appellant is appealing a Penalty Charge Notice issued in respect of entering and stopping on a box junction at the location.
The matter is listed for a Teams hearing and the Appellant has attended the hearing.
The Enforcement Authority relies upon photographic capture of the incident, a copy of the PCN and correspondence.
The Appellant accepts that his vehicle stopped on the junction, but disputes that this was due to stationary traffic. He has submitted written representations and annotated photographic evidence in support of his appeal.
I have carefully considered all the evidence in this matter.
The Enforcement Authority's case is that the Appellant's vehicle entered the box junction and then stopped in the junction owing to stationary traffic impeding its exit from the box. Under Paragraph 11(1) in Part 7 of Schedule 9 to the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016 a box junction marking conveys the prohibition that a person must not cause a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box marking due to the presence of a stationary vehicle.
The CCTV evidence that the Authority has provided shows the vehicle turning left and entering the box junction. It is not readily evidence from the footage as to whether there was sufficient "receiving " space on the far side of the box, as contended by the Appellant, who has provided documentation relating to the length of his vehicle and the available space. However, as the vehicle slows to a halt, pedestrians to the right begin to cross the road ahead of the vehicle, followed by a person on a scooter. As the person on the scooter has almost reached the footway, another pedestrian crosses the carriageway from the other direction. As soon as this pedestrian is clear of the vehicle, the vehicle moves forward and off the box.
I cannot be satisfied that the reason for the vehicle coming to a halt was the presence of stationary traffic.
I therefore allow this appeal.