3. ULEZ PCN not received, went to debt collection/CDER Group
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ULEZ PCN not received, went to debt collection/CDER Group
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Hi all,

Bit of a weird one. I unfortunately got tagged in the ULEZ zone twice last year in August. They sent the PCN to where the car was originally registered (Company office), which was never received. In September, the car was re-registered to my home address. This was roughly 2 weeks after the PCN was issued.

However, I have only just recieved the PCN, and speaking to the debt collection agency they said they were sending it to the address where it was registered in August this entire time, until they finally did another lookup this month to send this debt collection. There are now huge additional fines on this PCN because it went unpaid, because they kept sending reminders/requests to an address the vehicle was no longer registered to.

I've unfortuantely had to pay this, since it was that or bailifs, but I am trying to get through to the enforcement team.

I'm not querying how to get out of the payment of the original PCN, I made a mistake and need to pay the fine for. My query is around how to approach the subject of them sending the letters to an address the vehicle was no longer registered at for the next 8 months while incurring additonal fees.

Is there any organisation I can speak to etc in regards to that?
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Re: ULEZ PCN not received, went to debt collection/CDER Group
« Reply #1 on: »
Quote from: iNveiN on April 24, 2024, 01:47:32 pm
Is there any organisation I can speak to etc in regards to that?
There is but we can start dealing with it here if you give us the relevant dates.
There is no rush for you to take action as you've already paid and are at no further risk.
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Re: ULEZ PCN not received, went to debt collection/CDER Group
« Reply #2 on: »
Hey

Thanks for your response!

Dates of offence are: 14 Aug 2023 (Colney Hatch Lane U45406) and 20 Aug 2023 (Golders Green Road U43606)
Warrant issue date: 12/01/2024
First receieved letter dated: 12/04/2024

Thanks
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Re: ULEZ PCN not received, went to debt collection/CDER Group
« Reply #3 on: »
Quote from: Neil B on April 24, 2024, 02:56:58 pm
Quote from: iNveiN on April 24, 2024, 01:47:32 pm
Is there any organisation I can speak to etc in regards to that?
There is but we can start dealing with it here if you give us the relevant dates.
There is no rush for you to take action as you've already paid and are at no further risk.
You'd be best served by posting up scans of both PCNs since you imply that you've got them. Instructions are in the READ THIS FIRST sticky post at the top of the forum. Please redact the name and address. Please leave everything else visible including the PCN number, dates, locations and the vehicle reg.

This looks like it's ULEZ pre-expansion. So within the North and South Circular Roads. That's been around since Oct 2021. How come you didn't pay the charge?

Just because TFL issued PCNs doesn't mean that the car wasn't exempt. There are numerous mistakes in the TFL database / ULEZ checker. So let's check that out, what's the make and exact model of the car and the vehicle reg?

And be aware that you aren't liable for the PCNs and bailiff charges, the company is. Not that the bailiff will care much.
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Re: ULEZ PCN not received, went to debt collection/CDER Group
« Reply #4 on: »
Thanks Enceladus.

I don't have the PCN, I only have a "Notice of Enforcement" from Cder Group. I've attached that. I only found out about the 2nd PCN from the 20th Aug when I called them and they had two on my account.

PCN Number: YJ63097096 (14 Aug) & YJ6342554 (20 Aug)

How I got them? Probably just completely unaware. I did an airport run to Gatwick on the 14th and dropped someone off at Hendon. And the 20th of Aug I have no idea, seems to be Hendon again.

Renault Megane Knight Ed Energy Dci Ss (Dci 110 Eco Start/Stop). Reg: LR63 XTN



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Re: ULEZ PCN not received, went to debt collection/CDER Group
« Reply #5 on: »
You need to tell us a bit more about this: -
Quote
They sent the PCN to where the car was originally registered (Company office), which was never received. In September, the car was re-registered to my home address. This was roughly 2 weeks after the PCN was issued.

Were there any arrangements to forward mail ? 
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Re: ULEZ PCN not received, went to debt collection/CDER Group
« Reply #6 on: »
Quote from: iNveiN on April 24, 2024, 05:41:59 pm
Hey

Thanks for your response!

Dates of offence are: 14 Aug 2023 (Colney Hatch Lane U45406) and 20 Aug 2023 (Golders Green Road U43606)
Warrant issue date: 12/01/2024
First receieved letter dated: 12/04/2024

Thanks
And you miss out the most important one?
You said you updated the V5 shortly after?
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Re: ULEZ PCN not received, went to debt collection/CDER Group
« Reply #7 on: »
Quote from: Incandescent on April 24, 2024, 07:48:08 pm
You need to tell us a bit more about this: -
Quote
They sent the PCN to where the car was originally registered (Company office), which was never received. In September, the car was re-registered to my home address. This was roughly 2 weeks after the PCN was issued.

Were there any arrangements to forward mail ?

Yes, this still happens to this day. I get an email if mail has arrived and it gets sent to me.
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Re: ULEZ PCN not received, went to debt collection/CDER Group
« Reply #8 on: »
Quote from: Neil B on April 24, 2024, 07:52:50 pm
Quote from: iNveiN on April 24, 2024, 05:41:59 pm
Hey

Thanks for your response!

Dates of offence are: 14 Aug 2023 (Colney Hatch Lane U45406) and 20 Aug 2023 (Golders Green Road U43606)
Warrant issue date: 12/01/2024
First receieved letter dated: 12/04/2024

Thanks
And you miss out the most important one?
You said you updated the V5 shortly after?

Sorry, yes. The new V5 was issued on 27/09/2023. That would have been applied for roughly a week or two before issue. The exact application date I don't have
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Re: ULEZ PCN not received, went to debt collection/CDER Group
« Reply #9 on: »
Quote from: iNveiN on April 24, 2024, 09:03:18 pm
Quote from: Incandescent on April 24, 2024, 07:48:08 pm
You need to tell us a bit more about this: -
Quote
They sent the PCN to where the car was originally registered (Company office), which was never received. In September, the car was re-registered to my home address. This was roughly 2 weeks after the PCN was issued.

Were there any arrangements to forward mail ?

Yes, this still happens to this day. I get an email if mail has arrived and it gets sent to me.

This is actually the portal I have for all received mail. I don't get a lot. But you can see all the received mail back to August below.

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Re: ULEZ PCN not received, went to debt collection/CDER Group
« Reply #10 on: »
Can we just check. Who were the bailiff pursuing, yourself or your company?
And then please clarify your relationship with the 'company'? 
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Re: ULEZ PCN not received, went to debt collection/CDER Group
« Reply #11 on: »
Quote from: Neil B on April 24, 2024, 11:01:37 pm
Can we just check. Who were the bailiff pursuing, yourself or your company?
And then please clarify your relationship with the 'company'?

I assume the company as it's addressed to the company?

The Cder letter posted here is all I have had, other than a conversation I had with them.

I own the company.
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Re: ULEZ PCN not received, went to debt collection/CDER Group
« Reply #12 on: »
You need to download forms PE2 and PE3 and see what you understand about them.
DO NOT attempt to use the forms without posting a draft of what you intend to write, here first.

The important one is PE2, your reasons for being late filing PE3.
You have actually given us those reasons here --- but I want you to understand them and what you need to say.
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Re: ULEZ PCN not received, went to debt collection/CDER Group
« Reply #13 on: »
Quote from: Neil B on April 25, 2024, 07:37:09 pm
You need to download forms PE2 and PE3 and see what you understand about them.
DO NOT attempt to use the forms without posting a draft of what you intend to write, here first.

The important one is PE2, your reasons for being late filing PE3.
You have actually given us those reasons here --- but I want you to understand them and what you need to say.

Thank you. I'll have a thorough read and will draft something back here.

A quick one, PE3 is for unpaid PCNs apparently. I have already paid this due to the threaten of bailiffs when on the phone to Cder. Does this form still apply?

Thanks
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Re: ULEZ PCN not received, went to debt collection/CDER Group
« Reply #14 on: »
Quote from: iNveiN on April 24, 2024, 06:14:11 pm

I only found out about the 2nd PCN from the 20th Aug when I called them and they had two on my account.

PCN Number: YJ63097096 (14 Aug) & YJ6342554 (20 Aug)

When completing your Out of Time Statutory Declaration, you need to ensure that you provide the correct PCN number. Otherwise, your forms will not be able to be processed by the Traffic Enforcement Centre.

The second PCN number that you have quoted (YJ 63 42 55 4) is an INVALID number. All PCN numbers consist of 2 digits followed by 8 numbers.

With the 1st PCN number, you need to make sure on your forms that you state that the TfL website confirms that they (TfL) had received returned correspondence for the Penalty Charge Notice, Charge Certificate and the Order for Recovery. I would assume that the new tenants at your previous address had returned mail to TfL. This is clear evidence that you had not received any of the statutory notices.

Bailiff Advice Online
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