3. Ticket for parking outside my house whilst my garden hedge was being cut
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Ticket for parking outside my house whilst my garden hedge was being cut
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To whom can help,

Whilst our garden hedge was being cut we temporarily moved our car from the drive to the road outside our house but forgot to move it back to the drive.  The parking sign states Permit holders only 11am - Noon. We are not permit holders and received a ticket at 11:37.
Feels unfair that we have to pay £55 for parking just outside our house! Please can you help. Thanks







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Re: Ticket for parking outside my house whilst my garden hedge was being cut
« Reply #1 on: »
I suggest you submit representions against the PCN based on what you have told us, and state that you are residents as the house where the car was standing, and request the PCN be cancelled, pointing out that you are sure the parking restriction is to prevent commuters parking there for free and then walking to Rayners Lane Underground Station, and not to punish local residents. DOn't be confrontational, because the CEO would have had no idea the car was outside its owner's house.
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Re: Ticket for parking outside my house whilst my garden hedge was being cut
« Reply #2 on: »
@challenge_cheaters please give us the PCN number and the number plate, without this information we can't do any basic checks.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Ticket for parking outside my house whilst my garden hedge was being cut
« Reply #3 on: »
Quote from: cp8759 on June 26, 2024, 06:14:54 pm
@challenge_cheaters please give us the PCN number and the number plate, without this information we can't do any basic checks.
PCN: HR75242785
Reg: LV08DPK
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Re: Ticket for parking outside my house whilst my garden hedge was being cut
« Reply #4 on: »
What evidence do you have around the hedge cutting, at what time did the work start and when did it finish?

Also, don't you have any visitor permits?

Council photos:









The location is here https://maps.app.goo.gl/K6V1c6QXayRuRkBS6 and the one thing that occurs to me is that this is not opposite lamppost 3, it's between a point opposite lamppost 3 and a point opposite lamppost 4.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2024, 06:12:56 pm by cp8759 »
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Ticket for parking outside my house whilst my garden hedge was being cut
« Reply #5 on: »
Oh dear, mea culpa !  I forgot about the visitor permit facility, that would have covered the OP's time on the carriageway. Of course, these all cost money.
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Re: Ticket for parking outside my house whilst my garden hedge was being cut
« Reply #6 on: »
Quote from: cp8759 on June 29, 2024, 05:45:28 pm
What evidence do you have around the hedge cutting, at what time did the work start and when did it finish?

Also, don't you have any visitor permits?

Council photos:









The location is here https://maps.app.goo.gl/K6V1c6QXayRuRkBS6 and the one thing that occurs to me is that this is not opposite lamppost 3, it's between a point opposite lamppost 3 and a point opposite lamppost 4.

Thanks for the checks.
- We moved the car at 8:30
- We have Ring video footage showing the hedge being cut.
- We do not have a visitors parking permit
- Please let me know the significance of the lamppost location
- the 14-day cut-off will be 4th July - so I need to appeal by then.

Cheers
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Re: Ticket for parking outside my house whilst my garden hedge was being cut
« Reply #7 on: »
Well you must know the restrictions exist so I don't think being in deliberate contravention will help. There is no requirement for the PCN to give an exact location, but if the location is wrong then you can argue the contravention alleged did not occur.

Here's a draft you can send:

Dear London Borough of Harrow,

The alleged contravention did not occur. It is alleged on the PCN that a contravention took place while my car was parked on Cannon Lane opposite lamppost 4, but my car was not at that location. Lamppost 4 is situated opposite number 9 Cannon Lane, but my car was opposite number 16 Cannon Lane. If the contravention alleged on the PCN did not occur (which it did not), it is then irrelevant whether a contravention did or didn't occur at some other point along Cannon Lane, as it is only the matter alleged on the PCN that counts.

It follows that the PCN must be cancelled.

Yours faithfully,


Send this online and keep a screenshot of the confirmation page.

In the meantime I have found the traffic order for this location, it's The Harrow (Parking Places) Traffic Order 2020 and Cannon Lane is in Schedule 1 on page six. The interesting thing is the order and the road markings don't match up to each other at all. I'm going to make some enquiries with the council about this, if they have simply messed up the order then we can use this argument at the notice to owner stage, or possibly at the tribunal.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Ticket for parking outside my house whilst my garden hedge was being cut
« Reply #8 on: »
Quote from: cp8759 on June 30, 2024, 06:10:05 pm
Well you must know the restrictions exist so I don't think being in deliberate contravention will help. There is no requirement for the PCN to give an exact location, but if the location is wrong then you can argue the contravention alleged did not occur.

Here's a draft you can send:

Dear London Borough of Harrow,

The alleged contravention did not occur. It is alleged on the PCN that a contravention took place while my car was parked on Cannon Lane opposite lamppost 4, but my car was not at that location. Lamppost 4 is situated opposite number 9 Cannon Lane, but my car was opposite number 16 Cannon Lane. If the contravention alleged on the PCN did not occur (which it did not), it is then irrelevant whether a contravention did or didn't occur at some other point along Cannon Lane, as it is only the matter alleged on the PCN that counts.

It follows that the PCN must be cancelled.

Yours faithfully,


Send this online and keep a screenshot of the confirmation page.

In the meantime I have found the traffic order for this location, it's The Harrow (Parking Places) Traffic Order 2020 and Cannon Lane is in Schedule 1 on page six. The interesting thing is the order and the road markings don't match up to each other at all. I'm going to make some enquiries with the council about this, if they have simply messed up the order then we can use this argument at the notice to owner stage, or possibly at the tribunal.

Thanks for your help. A few things to point out:
1. Yes, this is the location as you pointed out: https://maps.app.goo.gl/K6V1c6QXayRuRkBS6. This is outside house number 9 Cannon lane.
2. The PCN states 'opp lp 3'rather than lamppost 4 you mentioned in your draft
3. Also, does 'opposite' mean the same side as the road as the lamppost i.e. alongside the lampost or literally the other side of the road to the lamppost?

Thanks
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Re: Ticket for parking outside my house whilst my garden hedge was being cut
« Reply #9 on: »
@challenge_cheaters I'll need to tweak the draft slightly. Do you know the house number of the house on the corner here? https://maps.app.goo.gl/44E2GC81eh8YVV9H7
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Ticket for parking outside my house whilst my garden hedge was being cut
« Reply #10 on: »
Quote from: cp8759 on June 30, 2024, 11:29:45 pm
@challenge_cheaters I'll need to tweak the draft slightly. Do you know the house number of the house on the corner here? https://maps.app.goo.gl/44E2GC81eh8YVV9H7

Hi there, yes, that is House number 19. Thanks
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Re: Ticket for parking outside my house whilst my garden hedge was being cut
« Reply #11 on: »
Revised draft:

Dear London Borough of Harrow,

The alleged contravention did not occur. It is alleged on the PCN that a contravention took place while my car was parked on Cannon Lane opposite lamppost 3, but my car was not at that location. Lamppost 3 is situated opposite number 19 Cannon Lane, but my car was opposite number 16 Cannon Lane. If the contravention alleged on the PCN did not occur (which it did not), it is then irrelevant whether a contravention did or didn't occur at some other point along Cannon Lane, as it is only the matter alleged on the PCN that counts.

It follows that the PCN must be cancelled.

Yours faithfully,

Don't forget a screenshot of the confirmation page once submitted. The council will obviously reject but this will buy us some time to get some more information about the traffic order.
Logged
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Ticket for parking outside my house whilst my garden hedge was being cut
« Reply #12 on: »
Quote from: cp8759 on July 01, 2024, 10:59:27 pm
Revised draft:

Dear London Borough of Harrow,

The alleged contravention did not occur. It is alleged on the PCN that a contravention took place while my car was parked on Cannon Lane opposite lamppost 3, but my car was not at that location. Lamppost 3 is situated opposite number 19 Cannon Lane, but my car was opposite number 16 Cannon Lane. If the contravention alleged on the PCN did not occur (which it did not), it is then irrelevant whether a contravention did or didn't occur at some other point along Cannon Lane, as it is only the matter alleged on the PCN that counts.

It follows that the PCN must be cancelled.

Yours faithfully,

Don't forget a screenshot of the confirmation page once submitted. The council will obviously reject but this will buy us some time to get some more information about the traffic order.

Many thanks for this!  Should I also mention that I am a resident at the house where the car was standing? It seems the parking restriction is to prevent commuters from parking there for free and then walking to Pinner Underground Station, and not to punish local residents.
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Re: Ticket for parking outside my house whilst my garden hedge was being cut
« Reply #13 on: »
Quote from: challenge_cheaters on July 03, 2024, 10:54:59 am
Many thanks for this!  Should I also mention that I am a resident at the house where the car was standing? It seems the parking restriction is to prevent commuters from parking there for free and then walking to Pinner Underground Station, and not to punish local residents.
Yes you could mention that, it can't hurt.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Ticket for parking outside my house whilst my garden hedge was being cut
« Reply #14 on: »
Hi All,
Sadly they rejected my appeal.  Please see below:

Please could you advise on next steps.  Thanks
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