Author Topic: Thurrock, c05, Derby Bridge Road  (Read 415 times)

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jays86

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Thurrock, c05, Derby Bridge Road
« on: November 10, 2023, 07:38:55 pm »
Hi
I was parked on Derby Bridge Road for a meeting, and had displayed a ticket in my vehicle. Unfortunately, when leaving the meeting I slipped down the steps, twisted my ankle and hurt my knee. The organisation I met with helped me back inside the building, cleaned me up and then sent me on my way. Unfortunately, due to the injury it took me longer to get back to my vehicle and my Pay and Display Ticket had expired. Is there any chance of successfully appealing this? The organisation I met with would be able to confirm that this happened if this is lively to help.
Or are there any issues with the ticket/wording?
Thanks in advance!


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Incandescent

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Re: Thurrock, c05, Derby Bridge Road
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2023, 11:08:47 pm »
Obviously the CEO is blameless, as all he saw was a car parked beyond the paid time, knowing nothing about the circumstances. However, staff in their parking department are obliged to consider any representations you submit, so it would be best if you submitted informal reps against the PCN giving the circumstances, and backing this up with some evidence of your fall. Statutory guidance has something to say on this: -

Quote
An authority has a discretionary power to cancel a PCN at any point throughout the process. It can do this even when an undoubted contravention has occurred if the authority deems it to be appropriate in the circumstances of the case.

Under general principles of public law, authorities have a duty to act fairly and proportionately and are encouraged to exercise discretion sensibly and reasonably and with due regard to the public interest. Failure to act in accordance with the general principles of public law may lead to a claim for a decision to be judicially reviewed.

Enforcement authorities have a duty not to fetter their discretion, so should ensure that PNCs, NtOs, leaflets and any other advice they give do not mislead the public about what they may consider in the way of representations.

They should approach the exercise of discretion objectively and without regard to any financial interest in the penalty or decisions that may have been taken at an earlier stage in proceedings.

You can read the guidance here: -
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/civil-enforcement-of-parking-contraventions/guidance-for-local-authorities-on-enforcing-parking-restrictions

Under the Traffic Management Act, councils must have regard to the guidance.

So, if you're going to submit reps, post a draft here first for review. Then after submission, post up their reply when you get it.

cp8759

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Re: Thurrock, c05, Derby Bridge Road
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2023, 01:12:28 pm »
The PCN wording is defective, but there's some more basic problems for the council:















There is precisely zero evidence of signage, so there's no prima-facie contravention. That being said, I would keep all technical arguments for a much later stage, you have what amounts to reasons beyond your control for not moving the vehicle and that is normally an exemption in the traffic order.

Have you been to see your GP, or called 111, or do you have any other medical evidence of your injury?

In the meantime I'll get hold of the traffic order.
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative councillor, this means some people think I am "scum". I am not a lawyer.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

jays86

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Re: Thurrock, c05, Derby Bridge Road
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2023, 05:09:22 pm »
Draft reps below for comment, the letter from The Community House should be with me tomorrow morning.

Dear Sir/Madam
I am writing with regards to PCN TK03017674. On arriving at the bay I paid for parking until 11.01 as I was attending a meeting which was due to last until 10.30 and this time allowed for any overrun of the meeting. I left The Community House at 10:55 to make my way back to my vehicle, however, as I was exiting down the steps of the building I slipped and fell, twisting my ankle and injuring my knee. One of the Trustees of The Community House who I had met with came to my assistance and took me back into the building to administer First Aid, including cleaning my knee and strapping my ankle. After First Aid had been administered I made my way back to my vehicle, arriving back to it around 11.18 which was the earliest that I could do given the unexpected delay, injury, and it then taking me longer to walk to my vehicle on the way back.

I attach a letter from The Community House confirming that I attended a meeting there, and that they administered First Aid as a result of me slipping on the steps when leaving the building.

cp8759

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Re: Thurrock, c05, Derby Bridge Road
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2023, 12:59:32 am »
That looks good, send it off and let's see what they say.
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative councillor, this means some people think I am "scum". I am not a lawyer.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

cp8759

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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative councillor, this means some people think I am "scum". I am not a lawyer.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

John U.K.

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Re: Thurrock, c05, Derby Bridge Road
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2023, 06:57:35 pm »
You may wish to repost with your name & address redacted.

jays86

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Re: Thurrock, c05, Derby Bridge Road
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2023, 08:20:59 pm »
You may wish to repost with your name & address redacted.

Thanks John!

Here's the response below, they have just classed it as an overunning meeting and not acknowledged that it was due to an injury that I was delayed returning to my vehicle. Any suggestions as to next steps from here?

« Last Edit: December 14, 2023, 08:23:27 pm by jays86 »

jays86

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Re: Thurrock, c05, Derby Bridge Road
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2023, 08:18:08 am »
Am I right in thinking at this stage it's just a case of waiting for the NTO?

Incandescent

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Re: Thurrock, c05, Derby Bridge Road
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2023, 09:58:51 am »
Yes, but why do you say they have taken your witness statement as an over-running meeting if it describes your fall and subsequent delay in getting back to your car ?  Is the witness statement specific on this fall ? You might care to post it here, suitably redacted, of course.


jays86

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Re: Thurrock, c05, Derby Bridge Road
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2024, 09:52:39 am »
Hi apologies for the delay
My reps are included in the thread, and below is the statement from the organisation I met with. Perhaps it wasn't specific enough with regards to the time of my accident or the length of time it took to administer First Aid?


Incandescent

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Re: Thurrock, c05, Derby Bridge Road
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2024, 05:25:06 pm »
Where they get "over-running meeting" from is for them to show in the letter. It is just typical of venal and rapacious councils, so Thurrock can now join the Hall of Infamy. It fuller every year !
I would persist to adjudication if it were me. The adjudicator will decide "on the balance of probabilities", but first you have to go through the Notice to Owner stage and get reps against that rejected.

jays86

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Re: Thurrock, c05, Derby Bridge Road
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2024, 08:12:34 pm »
I'm pretty set on seeing the process through now. With that in mind is it worth getting a stronger version of the above statement, say with times included?

Incandescent

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Re: Thurrock, c05, Derby Bridge Road
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2024, 11:15:08 pm »
I'm pretty set on seeing the process through now. With that in mind is it worth getting a stronger version of the above statement, say with times included?
It would be better if you can, but the existing letter seems OK to me because it says nothing about the "meeting over-running", which the council seem to have made up, but does confirm your narrative of falling.

jays86

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Re: Thurrock, c05, Derby Bridge Road
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2024, 05:11:01 pm »
NTO has arrived. I'm trying to get an updated letter from the group I met with, but no luck yet. Is there anything specific I should be saying/referencing in my representations?