Author Topic: TfL - Southern Arm Target Roundabout - 31: Entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited  (Read 466 times)

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Can I challenge this PCN saying something like what I have written below or is it clutching at straws?

Appeal

The vehicle entered the box junction when the exit appeared clear. Although another vehicle was present ahead, it was not obviously obstructing our lane due to the absence of lane markings beyond the junction. The exit layout was ambiguous at the time of entry. From the driver's position, it was reasonable to believe that there was adequate space to exit the junction.

Additionally, another vehicle from the lane to the right of the vehicle a luton van, was able to pass through, further illustrating that the lane was not fully blocked. However, when our vehicle proceeded through the box junction it has become apparent that our vehicle could not safely perform the same manoeuvre due to its size and limited turning ability.

I refer you to adjudication decisions, PATAS 2130184883 and 2120590767, which establish that a contravention occurs only when a vehicle enters the box knowing the exit is not clear.

Dashcam footage: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_gXI-nO4gLW2bPY4C4EXcIj1sdGWD582/view?usp=sharing

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I'm a bit confused by the dashcam footage.  There's a massive empty lane ahead of the orange car (which turns out to be the lane of choice once the footage rolls on), and a long period when there are no vehicles passing on the left hand side preventing the driver from manoeuvring around it.

Can you explain in more detail why the driver chose to remain where he/she was which resulted in the vehicle stopping within the box junction?

EDIT - ah, it's an HGV!

While the dashcam footage is helpful, you should also seek out the TFL footage (they should send by post on a CD/DVD on request).  The photos in the PCN don't show anything in front of the box junction so if the video also does not show this, it will be difficult for them to prove it was a stationary vehicle which was responsible (as it required for a contravention to have occurred).
« Last Edit: July 18, 2025, 01:58:53 pm by MrChips »

Ahh yeah I should have specified that it was a HGV. Driver doesn't remember, I think he's Latvian I would guess, so probably doesn't realise there is something to remember, it was just a roundabout after all.

And yes I have requested the CCTV from TfL, another DVD to add to the collection 😂 and the images don't show what's beyond the box (they actually look like there is nothing beyond the box), and their footage might not show why our vehicle stopped either. Maybe he stopped to tie his shoes. 🤷‍♂️