Free Traffic Legal Advice

The position of the box junction is arguable, but it is a tough one to win, as where is is placed is at the junction between the two merging roads travelling in the direction your car was going.  Where the junction starts and ends is a little subjective and I think an adjudicator is unlikely to say where it is placed in this case it not at a junction of two roads - see what others think.

Thanks to cp8759 for putting the video on Youtube, I've now had a chance to view it on my laptop screen.  By my reckoning, the first time your car and the car in front are both stopped simultaneously is at 1min43 into the video and you both remain in the same position until it ceases.  See pic below for respective car positions at this point.



From the camera position and distance it's very difficult to be sure how much space is between your car and the car in front.  You look to have about half a car length in the box junction.  Could an adjudicator be sure there wasn't sufficient room in front to move into?

Can someone help me formulate a defence please based on the evidence..

Thanks

Hi Hashim.  You can challenge this online via TFL website.  I'm happy to pull together an initial draft for you over the weekend.

@MrChips @Hashim the deadline for representations is midnight on 30 May.

Hashim, here's my draft.  I decided not to include the box position argument as I think it's not going to be a winner, and takes focus away from the argument I think has more chance of success (but even this I think is probably below 50%, but still has a chance).

Dear TFL

Re PCN XXXXXXXXXX

I recently received the above referenced PCN in respect of stopping in a box junction.  Having reviewed the video evidence you provided, I would like to submit representations on the grounds that the contravention did not occur.

My car first enters the box junction at 16:30:17 on the clock shown at the top left of the video.  It initially comes to rest, very briefly, at around 16:30:30 on the same clock, and during this time (approximately one to two seconds) the car in front continues to be in (slight) motion (i.e. it is not stationary and so no box junction contravention can occur even if my car does stop).

Having moved off again, my car then comes to rest again at around 16:30:45 with what seems to be around half a cars length within the box junction markings and remains stationary until the end of the footage some 13 seconds later.  Crucially during this time the car is at the far end of the junction, some distance from the video camera.  Due to the distance, the camera angle, and because there is a lamp post partially obstructing the view, it is very difficult, if not impossible, to reliably assess the distance between my car and the stationary car in front.

A box junction contravention involves causing a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop [my emphasis] within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles.  It is well established that stopping with part of a car within a box junction when this is not necessitated by a stationary vehicle blocking the exit (for example when there is sufficient room to fully exit the box junction) is not a contravention.  As such, in this instance, the evidence provided is insufficient to demonstrate whether a contravention occurred.

On that basis, unless you have additional footage you can provide which shows the position at the front of the box junction more clearly, I look forward to the cancellation of the PCN.

Kind regards,


If you can leave it 24 hours, you may get some additional comments/improvements from others.

Received a Notice of Rejection today:

Notice of Rejection
Thank you for your representation received regarding the above Penalty Charge Notice (PCN).
In your representation you state that you that around half a cars length was within the box junction markings and remains
stationary for 13 seconds. You also state that due to the distance, reliably assess the distance between your car and the
vehicle in front. You also state that evidence provided is insufficient to demonstrate whether a contravention occurred.
We issued the PCN because your vehicle was observed by a CCTV Enforcement Camera, stationary within a yellow box
junction at the above location on the date of contravention. Upon investigation we can confirm that your vehicle moved
unnecessarily into the box junction. The CCTV evidence clearly shows your vehicle entering the box junction. Your vehicle
stopped in the box junction from 16:30:30 until 16:30:33 then 16:30:37 until 16:30:38 then 16:30:44 until 16:30:57, and was
stationary for a total of 17 seconds. The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002 and as amended 2011,
regulation 29(2) states that a vehicle is not permitted to remain stationary within a Yellow Box Junction. Therefore, in order
to comply with regulation 29(2) a driver must not allow their vehicle to enter and stop in the box junction for any reason
other than the exception given in Schedule 19, 7(2) which allows stopping in the box junction for the purpose of turning
right. In this instance, your vehicle was not observed attempting to turn right. We are also able to confirm that this box
junction has been authorised for use by the Department for Transport and is therefore a legally compliant box junction. In
light of this and upon viewing the CCTV footage, we are satisfied that a contravention occurred. We are therefore unwilling
to cancel this Penalty Charge Notice and or reject.
It is the legal responsibility of every road user and business operator to identify all the traffic laws that must be complied
with, and to then comply. The relief of congestion and the improvement of traffic flows are of strategic importance to
London. The red routes are by definition roads that are particularly sensitive to the disruptive effect of illegal stopping. As
the Highway Authority with the responsibility for the performance of the red route network, TfL places a very high priority on
achieving full compliance with the restrictions and expects every road user to plan and operate their road use fully within the
law at all times.


Anything else we can do or should i submit on this one.

Thanks

Hashim

@Hashim as above we need to see all sides of all pages of the notice of rejection, not a transcript. Whether you have a viable appeal will turn entirely on the NoR so we really need to see it.

I am unable to upload any files as its exceeded the limit.

Have a read of the guidance here

https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/