Free Traffic Legal Advice

I'll try this one more time >>>

Quote from: Neil B on January 08, 2025, 04:39:30 pm

It would help if we at least had the PCN number and registration so we could confirm your current position.

And, from nthe evidence pack, is there a case summary you can show us?

Yes please. When posting documents it's only necessary to redact your name and address and/or email address where present. Please leave everything else visible, especially the vehicle reg, the PCN reference number, all times and dates and locations and any other Council info.

This is covered in the READ THIS FIRST - **BEFORE POSTING YOUR CASE!** sticky post at the to[ of the forum.

@traz you must call London Tribunals on Monday on 020 7520 7200 and find out if the case has been set up and if so, whether it has been listed for  a hearing or a postal decision (or possibly whether it's still in the Proper Officer's queue to look at).

This sounds like a straightforward case but it would be easy to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, so I'm going to drop you a PM in case you'd like me to represent you.

Also, and this is crucially important: give the tribunal your email address and ask them to change the communications preference to email, also if the tribunal has sent you any correspondence by post ask them to re-send it by email.

And perhaps you could give him a reminder to repond to members when we ask questions?

TfL have got themselves into a muddle, not that it directly assists your case but it's indicative of their capability. When TEC have revoked an OfR on your grounds, 'did not receive NOR..', then TfL '..shall refer the case to the traffic adjudicator who may give such direction as he considers appropriate.'

Their Witness Statement(whatever the hell this is, there's no procedural provision for such) harks back to them issuing a NOR and not receiving any notification from Royal Mail that mail could not be delivered or returned letters. All irrelevant within the procedure. They also make repeated references to your 'application', but the only application made by you was to TEC.

Anyway, once we know what the adjudicator has decided as regards their submission dated 29 Jan we'll know what to advise. IMO, you should have heard from the tribunal by now which reinforces the need for you to establish an email comms link.

Is it still possible to clear this PCN at the reduced rate at this point?

No, forget about the discount, and frankly it would be foolish to settle at the discount: if TFL have skipped a crucial step such as issuing the notice of rejection then you have a winning appeal, so why on earth would you pay them £80?!?

The case summary says a Notice of Rejection was issued on 15 October, is there a copy in evidence item E?

Have you spoken to the tribunal and got the case number? Have you changed the communications preference to email?

Just a novice question. What should I do now? Just wait for them to email me?

Yes, but in the meantime I'd do a few things so that you're armed and ready:

1) Make a subject access request to dpo@tfl.gov.uk asking for a copy of all the PDF files that have been sent to the tribunal for your PCN (you will need to give your full name and the PCN number, and attach proof of ID such as a scan of your driving licence or a recent utility bill), the copy TFL sends you in the post will likely be missing a few documents and you want to have the exact same papers the adjudicator will have.

2) Have a read of Paul Richard Davis v The Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea (1970198981, 30 March 1998), it's a decision which has stood the test of time and sets out the key principles applicable to delays.

3) Have a read of the cases in column D of this spreadsheet on rows 995 to 1004, your notice of rejection is affected by the same issue (do this on a computer, not on your phone).

4) Has TFL included a DVD with the CCTV footage in the evidence pack? If not, please call them on 0343 222 3333 and ask them for a copy, they should send you a DVD in the post.

My money's on a TfL muddle/improper behaviour.

Then you'd have lost your money, the case is with the Proper Officer because if there are no representations / NOR in the evidence pack, the tribunal writes out to the Appellant asking for a copy of the representations, while if the reps and NOR are in the evidence pack then the tribunal just lists the case for a hearing (it would be pointless to ask the Appellant for a copy of the representations if the tribunal has them already). Obviously the POs are very busy but until they go through evidence item E to check what's there, the case cannot progress.

TFL have sent an evidence pack because they send it to the Appellant at the same time as they send it to the tribunal.

As I read it, when a WS has been submitted under the 'made reps but did not receive NOR' grounds the owner does not become an appellant until determined by the adjudicator, which brings us back to why has the OP not received notice to this effect and why did TfL go to the lengths of preparing a full-blown evidence pack when no appeal was actually in place or if it was, when was this registered etc?

Authorities have always been required to provide a full-blown evidence pack up-front for TEC ground 2 cases, this is long-standing practice. Until recently the tribunal used to write to all declarants asking for a copy of the representations and the case would then go to an adjudicator to decide whether the case should be listed as an appeal.

I wrote to the Chief Adjudicator in December pointing out that were the representations and the Notice of Rejection are included in the evidence pack this process was entirely pointless because:

A) If the representations are in the evidence pack that the tribunal already has, asking the declarant to provide a copy is completely pointless
B) If the letter from the tribunal asking for a copy of the representations goes missing in the post, or the letter back from the motorist goes missing in the post, the declarant ends up with a direction to pay that should have never been issued, that is a miscarriage of justice that is bound to happen from time to time given the high volume of Ground 2 cases
C) When a ground 2 declaration has been accepted by TEC and the motorist produces a copy of the representations, the outcome is always without exception that the case be listed as an appeal
D) In light of the above, it would be far more efficient for the admin team to go through Ground 2 referrals from the local authority so that where there are no representations in the evidence pack, the standard letter asking for a copy of the representations goes out, but in cases where the representations and the NoR are in the evidence pack, the admin team simply lists the case for a hearing under delegated powers.

Although I never had a reply, the tribunal has now implemented this process which means that all Ground 2 statutory declarations go to the Proper Officer team and if the reps and the NoR are in evidence item E, the case is administratively listed for adjudication. This saves the declarant from having to send a copy of the representations, and it saves an adjudicator from having to look at the case twice.

@traz on this point I'd suggest you call the tribunal back and ask them to put a note on the case saying that if the case is to be decided as an appeal, you'd like a hearing. Otherwise they would list it for a postal decision.