Author Topic: TFL Red Route PCN - Weak/No Evidence?  (Read 6889 times)

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Re: TFL Red Route PCN - Weak/No Evidence?
« Reply #15 on: »
There's no photographic evidence of the signage provided by TfL. a possible "win" when it goes to Tribunal.
Bus driving since 1973. My advice, if you have a PSV licence, destroy it when you get to 65 or you'll be forever in demand.

Re: TFL Red Route PCN - Weak/No Evidence?
« Reply #16 on: »
'We issued your PCN because your vehicle was ...........'

Whereas the actual PCN states...............!

Re: TFL Red Route PCN - Weak/No Evidence?
« Reply #17 on: »
'We issued your PCN because your vehicle was ...........'

Whereas the actual PCN states...............!

Oh now I get it! (Thank you!!) I thought it was odd they mentioned this 50cm nonsense but I'd initially dismissed it, assuming it was just their way of referring to the fact I wasn't parked in the adjacent bay.

So do I appeal based on this reason alone, or should I still mention the other reasons?

(I assume the reason for appeal would now be "contravention did not occur"?)

Re: TFL Red Route PCN - Weak/No Evidence?
« Reply #18 on: »
Hearing date set for February 25th.

Re: TFL Red Route PCN - Weak/No Evidence?
« Reply #19 on: »
When the time comes, I suggest you introduce the subject in a different manner.

Perhaps...

As the adjudicator will notice, my detailed formal reps were against the contravention of ****** and therefore I was completely nonplussed by their Notice of Rejection which states that they are rejecting my representations and upholding the contravention of ******.

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Re: TFL Red Route PCN - Weak/No Evidence?
« Reply #20 on: »
I've just received the evidence pack from tfl, and they are strenuously defending this case.

Before I go ahead and post their case summary on here, I'm just checking this is allowed and I'm not doing anything wrong?

Re: TFL Red Route PCN - Weak/No Evidence?
« Reply #21 on: »
The case summary is essential.

Re: TFL Red Route PCN - Weak/No Evidence?
« Reply #22 on: »
The case summary is essential.

Attached:














Re: TFL Red Route PCN - Weak/No Evidence?
« Reply #23 on: »
I can't help thinking that they have written that huge tome to try to pull the wool over the adjudicator's eyes because their case is weak.

Re: TFL Red Route PCN - Weak/No Evidence?
« Reply #24 on: »
Hearing is tomorrow. I've never done this before. What can I expect, and any tips to help me win this?

Re: TFL Red Route PCN - Weak/No Evidence?
« Reply #25 on: »
It will almost certainly just be you and the adjudicator, it's really rare for anyone from the Council to turn up, doubly so since the adjudicator is likely to ask them some embarrassing questions about the irrelevant 50cm nonsense.

Don't expect the adjudicator to want to hear everything you have to say, they are quite likely to stop the proceedings once they decide you have a winning argument.

I think the quickest route would be to start by asking the Adjudicator if the council are allowed to change their mind about which offence they issued the PCN for. The answer to this is of course, no. You'll probably get half way into pointing out that they changed their mind from Red Route to 50cm before the adjudicator makes their mind up to write some rather choice words about the Council while ruling in your favour.

In the unlikely event that  the adjudicator wants to discuss you being more than 50cm from the edge of the carriageway, don't panic, you're actually in a situation where you could admit you were guilty of that and not be in in any danger of paying a fine for it, because there's a time limit on making accusations and it's too late for the Council (or the adjudicator) to go there (among other reasons). The line to take is that you would have considered your options if you were issued a PCN for that, but that's not what happened. You're here to dispute the PCN you did receive, not a theoretical one that the Council might have issued.

In the even more unlikely event that that approach doesn't win the case for you, move on to asking the adjudicator if the Council are required to consider your representations? If so, does a whole load of irrelevant waffle about being 50cm fomr the edge of the carriageway prove that they did so? The answer to these questions are going to be "yes" and "no".

In the unlikely event that the adjudicator has still not ruled in your favour at this point, move on to your initial argument about this location not being signposted as a red route, and ask if the Council are allowed to withhold evidence about this until the Evidence Pack stage, despite you asking for it at the first opportunity.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2026, 11:38:03 pm by Grant Urismo »

Re: TFL Red Route PCN - Weak/No Evidence?
« Reply #26 on: »
It will almost certainly just be you and the adjudicator, it's really rare for anyone from the Council to turn up, doubly so since the adjudicator is likely to ask them some embarrassing questions about the irrelevant 50cm nonsense.

Don't expect the adjudicator to want to hear everything you have to say, they are quite likely to stop the proceedings once they decide you have a winning argument.

I think the quickest route would be to start by asking the Adjudicator if the council are allowed to change their mind about which offence they issued the PCN for. The answer to this is of course, no.

If the adjudicator wants to discuss you being more than 50cm from the edge of the carriageway, don't panic, you're actually in a situation where you could admit you did that and not be in in any danger, because there's a time limit on making accusations and it's too late for the Council (or the adjudicator) to go there. The line to take is that you would have considered your options if you were issued a PCN for that, but that's not what happened. You're here to dispute the PCN you did receive, not a theoretical one that the Council might have issued but can't now as it's too late.

If that approach doesn't win the case for you, move on to asking the adjudicator if the Council are required to consider your representations, and if so, does a whole load of waffle about 50cm prove that they did so. The answer to these questions are going to be "yes" and "no".

In the unlikely event that the adjudicator has still not ruled in your favour at this point, move on to your intitial point about this not being signposted as a red route, and ask if the Council are allowed to withhold evidence about this until the Evidence Pack stage, despite you asking for it at the first opportunity.

Thank you very much for your reply and clear guidance! Really appreciated!

Re: TFL Red Route PCN - Weak/No Evidence?
« Reply #27 on: »
Appeal was allowed! Thank you all for your help on here!

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