Author Topic: TfL red route - parked on footway - physical PCN  (Read 2429 times)

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TfL red route - parked on footway - physical PCN
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I've parked in this spot many times over the many years I've lived here usually 9-5 (it's near the station) with no issues. Many others park along this stretch routinely. There's a park on pavement in marked bays only road sign, with an arrow pointing left. I was parked just to the left of this.

Issue is that none of the 'bays' are clearly marked at all, they are all faded. So you'll see that my 'bay' is only marked on one side, and only faintly at that.

Am I able to contest this, on the grounds that any reasonable motorist would believe that this is a valid, albeit faded parking bay (it is to the left of the parking sign, there is a marking visible on one side, and all the other bays here are also faded)?

https://imgur.com/a/IWBxgRV

https://maps.app.goo.gl/HkkKwJ99jkjySDe18?g_st=ac

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Re: TfL red route - parked on footway - physical PCN
« Reply #1 on: »
Motorists aren't allowed to park anywhere there whether within marked bays or not. TfL are idiots.

You cannot have double red lines and footway parking because the effect of the DRL is NO stopping, let alone parking/waiting, at any point between the centre-line of the carriageway and the back of the footway.

I cannot make out what point you're making. I can see that they have tried to leave single vehicle width gaps to allow cars to cross the footway, did you park wholly or in part on one of these?

Re: TfL red route - parked on footway - physical PCN
« Reply #2 on: »
Well, this line and sign arrangement is of long standing; here is GSV 2008
https://maps.app.goo.gl/GhQfioS38vq3NF6cA

Re: TfL red route - parked on footway - physical PCN
« Reply #3 on: »
Leaving aside the legality of allowing off-carriageway parking there the absence of clear bay markings along the road there and position of sign should win this for you IMO. If you step back in time you can see various markings but it's what's there now that counts IMO.

Re: TfL red route - parked on footway - physical PCN
« Reply #4 on: »
Motorists aren't allowed to park anywhere there whether within marked bays or not. TfL are idiots.

You cannot have double red lines and footway parking because the effect of the DRL is NO stopping, let alone parking/waiting, at any point between the centre-line of the carriageway and the back of the footway.

I cannot make out what point you're making. I can see that they have tried to leave single vehicle width gaps to allow cars to cross the footway, did you park wholly or in part on one of these?

Interesting, thanks for the reply and no, did not park in any of those gaps used for crossing the footway, neither wholly nor in part.

Re: TfL red route - parked on footway - physical PCN
« Reply #5 on: »
Leaving aside the legality of allowing off-carriageway parking there the absence of clear bay markings along the road there and position of sign should win this for you IMO. If you step back in time you can see various markings but it's what's there now that counts IMO.

Exactly my reasoning. I've done the initial challenge with TfL now, let's see what they come back with.

Re: TfL red route - parked on footway - physical PCN
« Reply #6 on: »
I thought I'd give you the legal position. Whether TfL's idiocy in this matter spans weeks or decades doesn't matter, the law is the law. (except that the first time anyone gets a PCN for stopping they'd rely upon 'legitimate expectation' anyway). It illustrates collective stupidity. I'm not even certain that footway parking is supported by a resolution of the GLA, how could there be a legal document completely at odds with the Traffic Management Order which underpins the DRL.

Anyway you've submitted informal reps..

...and said what?

Re: TfL red route - parked on footway - physical PCN
« Reply #7 on: »
In the submission to TfL I said the following:

I believe parking is permitted at this location based on the signage available. The sign seemed to indicate that there were marked bays to the left, although the markings for all of the bays seemed to have all but faded away. Thus I, like any other motorist, was left to deduce the locations of the bays using common sense and what was left of the markings. Given the very faded marking at the front of my car, and the sign some distance from the rear of my car, I made the very reasonable assumption that I was parking in one of the bays referred to by the sign.

Re: TfL red route - parked on footway - physical PCN
« Reply #8 on: »
Thanks. Seems reasonable.

While you're waiting for a reply, you might submit a request to TfL for a copy of the resolution made under section 15(4) of the Greater London Council(General Powers) Act 1974 which disapplies the provisions of s15 regarding parking on the footway in that part of Woodford Avenue between Collinwood Gardens and Beechwood Gardens, ***(put in post code).

Do not refer to the PCN, this is a request you're entitled to make in any event.

Re: TfL red route - parked on footway - physical PCN
« Reply #9 on: »
Thanks, have done that while we wait!

Re: TfL red route - parked on footway - physical PCN
« Reply #10 on: »
TfL got back to me. Interestingly an order does exist setting out an exemption that covers this spot. See schedule 2a, item 25.

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Re: TfL red route - parked on footway - physical PCN
« Reply #11 on: »
I received a joke of a response to my informal representation, below, followed by my notice to owner a bit after. Any advice on anything in particular to include in formal representations?

Thank you for your informal representation regarding the above Penalty Charge Notice (PCN).
Transport for London (TfL) acknowledge the comments raised within your representation stating that as seen in the image
provided, the vehicle was parked in a marked parking bay, similar to the other vehicles parked along this stretch. Although,
the painted lines are very faded. Furthermore given this, you believe there was no contravention.
We issued the PCN because your vehicle was observed parked with one or more wheels on or over a footpath or any part
of a road other than a carriageway on the date and time of contravention at the above location. The Highway Code item 244
states that a vehicle "MUST NOT park partially or wholly on the pavement in London, and should not do so elsewhere
unless signs permit it. Parking on the pavement can obstruct and seriously inconvenience pedestrians, people in
wheelchairs or with visual impairments and people with prams or pushchairs". Parking on the pavement or verge is
therefore potentially dangerous to pedestrians, and could potentially cause damage to pipes and cables housed under the
paving stones. In the few locations where parking on the pavement is allowed, it is clearly indicated by signs and road
markings. There is no signage or road marking in place at the above location indicating that parking in this manner is
permitted.
It is the legal responsibility of every road user and business operator to identify all the traffic laws that must be complied
with, and to then comply. The relief of congestion and the improvement of traffic flows are of strategic importance to
London. The red routes are by definition roads that are particularly sensitive to the disruptive effect of illegal stopping. As
the Highway Authority with the responsibility for the performance of the red route network, TfL places a very high priority on
achieving full compliance with the restrictions and expects every road user to plan and operate their road use fully within the
law at all times.
The Civil Enforcement Officer (CEO) in this case is considered by Transport for London (TfL) as a credible witness. The
Officer is employed by the Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) as a CEO and was acting on behalf of TfL in enforcing the red
route regulations.
We have considered your informal representation. However we do not consider you have established grounds or suitable
reasons for the Penalty Charge to be cancelled.

Re: TfL red route - parked on footway - physical PCN
« Reply #12 on: »
Please post the NtO (only redact yr name & address - leave all else, especially the date, in).

I think (but do wait and see what others say) you could write something like

I rely on my original challenge and also the exemption to the ban on footway parling granted by your order [give title of Order and date}.


Re: TfL red route - parked on footway - physical PCN
« Reply #13 on: »
Thanks. Notice to owner is here - https://imgur.com/a/ej9rowr

PCN - 26th March
Informal rep - 2nd April
Response from tfl - 7th April
NtO - 29th April

Re: TfL red route - parked on footway - physical PCN
« Reply #14 on: »
Thanks. Notice to owner is here - https://imgur.com/a/ej9rowr

PCN - 26th March
Informal rep - 2nd April
Response from tfl - 7th April
NtO - 29th April
Informal representation rejected 7th April and NtO 29th April?

Please post up all of the TFL rejection? Redact your name & address and email address.