Author Topic: TfL red route - parked on footway - physical PCN  (Read 2422 times)

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Re: TfL red route - parked on footway - physical PCN
« Reply #15 on: »
Yes, TfL rejection went to my spam initially so didn't see it until a bit later. Full letter attached.

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« Last Edit: May 12, 2025, 02:03:50 pm by Coldhands »

Re: TfL red route - parked on footway - physical PCN
« Reply #16 on: »
does the timing of the rejection to informal reps have any bearing on my case?

Re: TfL red route - parked on footway - physical PCN
« Reply #17 on: »
Well I've just looked at the photos and can see a sign and markings on the pavement so lets see the NTO and make formal reps

Re: TfL red route - parked on footway - physical PCN
« Reply #18 on: »
Well I've just looked at the photos and can see a sign and markings on the pavement so lets see the NTO and make formal reps

Thanks for the reply here. NtO is attached earlier in the thread.

Re: TfL red route - parked on footway - physical PCN
« Reply #19 on: »
Got it i will draft something for you tomorrow evening



Re: TfL red route - parked on footway - physical PCN
« Reply #22 on: »
Great.

The photos taken by TFL show the back of the sign and the markings though not as clearly as GSV so a formal representation needs be no more than


Formal representation re

PCN number xxxxxxx
VRM number AA 23 ABC

I make formal representation to the council with regard to the above numbered PCN on the basis that

The alleged contravention did not occur;

Your response to my informal challenge was a rejection on the basis that there are no signs or markings at the location. This is not correct. in the attached GSV both a sign and markings can be seen

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5801391,0.061252,3a,20.3y,339.15h,81.56t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sylXYaT0erfUzkKPVpjnziA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D8.437860915054173%26panoid%3DylXYaT0erfUzkKPVpjnziA%26yaw%3D339.1504367120462!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDUxMy4xIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D


As your GLA 2007 314 creates an exemption and the sign and markings specify parking on the pavement as evidenced is allowed the PCN and NTO must be cancelled


Regards

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Re: TfL red route - parked on footway - physical PCN
« Reply #23 on: »
I don't think TfL get this issue.

To go back to 1974, London was split into metropolitan roads and borough roads. The GLC was responsible for metropolitan roads alone but with support of London boroughs promoted the GLC General Powers Act prohibiting parking on the footway anywhere within the Greater London area. But they provided a means by which boroughs and now TfL could opt out for any roads in their area.

Disapplication of the GP Act does NOT of itself create parking places on the footway, it simply disapplies the footway parking ban thereby permitting waiting on the footway PROVIDED that there is not another provision restricting this e.g. yellow and, now, RED lines etc.

What TfL have done is:

To exclude those lengths of street(NOT just the footway but the carriageway as well) for those items in Schedule 2A.

But they have placed DRL there.

That's unlawful.

3. General prohibition of stopping
(1) Subject to the provisions of paragraphs (2) and (3) of this article, and of
articles 4, 5, 6, 7, 9 and 10, no person shall cause any vehicle to stop on a
red route during the restricted hours.

(2) Subject to the provisions of paragraph (3) of this article, and of articles 4, 5, 6, 7, 9 and 10, no person shall cause any vehicle to stop at any time on a length of red route specified in schedule 4.
(3) The controls specified in paragraphs (1) and (2) of this article do not apply in respect of any area of or length of road specified in an item in column (2) of the table in schedule 2A.

So, NONE of the 'lengths of road specified in column (2) of the table in Schedule 2A ' may be marked with DRL.

But they are!

My emphasis above. A 'red route' is the whole road and not, as TfL make believe, the carriageway alone.

Re: TfL red route - parked on footway - physical PCN
« Reply #24 on: »
I don't think TfL get this issue.

To go back to 1974, London was split into metropolitan roads and borough roads. The GLC was responsible for metropolitan roads alone but with support of London boroughs promoted the GLC General Powers Act prohibiting parking on the footway anywhere within the Greater London area. But they provided a means by which boroughs and now TfL could opt out for any roads in their area.

Disapplication of the GP Act does NOT of itself create parking places on the footway, it simply disapplies the footway parking ban thereby permitting waiting on the footway PROVIDED that there is not another provision restricting this e.g. yellow and, now, RED lines etc.

What TfL have done is:

To exclude those lengths of street(NOT just the footway but the carriageway as well) for those items in Schedule 2A.

But they have placed DRL there.

That's unlawful.

3. General prohibition of stopping
(1) Subject to the provisions of paragraphs (2) and (3) of this article, and of
articles 4, 5, 6, 7, 9 and 10, no person shall cause any vehicle to stop on a
red route during the restricted hours.

(2) Subject to the provisions of paragraph (3) of this article, and of articles 4, 5, 6, 7, 9 and 10, no person shall cause any vehicle to stop at any time on a length of red route specified in schedule 4.
(3) The controls specified in paragraphs (1) and (2) of this article do not apply in respect of any area of or length of road specified in an item in column (2) of the table in schedule 2A.

So, NONE of the 'lengths of road specified in column (2) of the table in Schedule 2A ' may be marked with DRL.

But they are!

My emphasis above. A 'red route' is the whole road and not, as TfL make believe, the carriageway alone.

true but it will not matter at this stage you and I both know TfL think they can make it up as they gp along

Re: TfL red route - parked on footway - physical PCN
« Reply #25 on: »
As in so-called footway parking signs annotated:

'In marked areas only'

OP, the mandated sign is : 'in marked bays'.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/7/made

Part 2 Sign Table, Item 15, Col (4) refers.
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Re: TfL red route - parked on footway - physical PCN
« Reply #26 on: »
Interestingly a week after receiving my formal reps, someone has been to this location and marked out all the faded bays in chalk. And more interestingly have marked the exact area where I was parked as bike parking. Seems TfL may have taken my feedback seriously?

Re: TfL red route - parked on footway - physical PCN
« Reply #27 on: »
TfL didn't take any further action on this PCN, but also didn't send through any correspondence to cancel it. Is there anything else I need to do or is the PCN considered effectively cancelled after any particular length of time?

Re: TfL red route - parked on footway - physical PCN
« Reply #28 on: »
I'm not suggesting actually doing this without getting a lot more official legal advice than I'm able to offer in my role as a completely unqualified random stranger on the internet, but In your shoes I'd consider a note saying something like:

Dear Parking

Bearing in mind that that putting up a sign that says I can park somewhere then fining me for believing that sign obviously constitutes entrapment, and I've heard nothing from you for a while, I believe my current options are:

1) Hire a legal team, apply to the Court for a stay, and ask the Court to award costs

or

2) Pay up then hire a legal team, prosecute the Council for unlawful enrichment, get my money back and ask the Court to award costs.


...unless of course can you confirm that you've dropped the matter?
« Last Edit: October 07, 2025, 10:22:24 am by Grant Urismo »

Re: TfL red route - parked on footway - physical PCN
« Reply #29 on: »
TfL didn't take any further action on this PCN, but also didn't send through any correspondence to cancel it. Is there anything else I need to do or is the PCN considered effectively cancelled after any particular length of time?

What is the online status/history of the PCN say?