Free Traffic Legal Advice

Hello all,

I've been going through the process of appealing a bunch of PCNs. From what I can see I'm having a similar issue to what was mentioned in this thread: https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/2-tfl-congestion-charge-pcn-autopay-not-updated/msg19223/#msg19223

My company purchased a second hand vehicle to add to our fleet, and it was sat in our car park until the 30th, when an engineer needed to use it as his van's tyre had blown.
I started the process of adding it to our autopay fleet straight away, and also for the Dartford Crossing.

I tried to add it to autopay but I was given a message that it was already on an autopay service. I called the number provided and they directed me to contact congestion charge through their online form, instructing me to send over the v5c form as proof. This was sent on 30/05/2025 at 10:25:12, immediately after I got off the phone with the woman at TFL.

I checked on Monday and I could see the registration was on our list, so assumed TFL had done what was necessary! But I can only assume it hadn't actually been added to autopay, just to our vehicle list? I wasn't aware of this distinction as I don't usually deal with these affairs.

I was then off sick until the following Monday, so missed a correspondence email relating to the enquiry form I submitted with the v5c form. It said the vehicle wasn't already on an autopay service (with a line of question marks), but I checked again and saw it on our list (again, I didn't know the distinction), so I assumed the follow up email was an outdated response.

I then started receiving PCNs, spread out over multiple days, the first one came through the door on the 16th, about 2 weeks after the first offence (obviously no opportunity to retroactively pay any of the PCNs). It was then I realised, and added it to autopay right away.
I started appealing, attaching any evidence I thought was necessary. I submitted my appeal on the same day, the 16th, and it was put on hold.
On the 24th of June, further evidence was requested, specifying call logs for when I called TFL, which I attached as I had the exact time I phoned them on our work phone. I'd also attached my search history, proof of adding the vehicle to the dart charge and contact with TFL etc.

The updated appeal was submitted on the 26th.

Yesterday evening (8th), the status for all of the PCNS was updated to "Representation Rejected".

I essentially would like to know what my chances of successfully appealing now are? Is the next step a tribunal hearing? Or can I challenge it again, as the challenge PCN option is still there.
I haven't received the rejection letter through the post yet, will the PCN still be on hold?

I made the point that our company's fleet have been paying these charges honestly for many years, and that this was either a genuine error on my part, or bug on TFL's part, or a combination.

Thank you in advance

What has the logbook got to do with this.

The TFL system is reasonably clear in my view - you can register vehicles to make single payments but adding them to autopay is another step.

Personal accounts can have up to five vehicles but you can have a fleet account for six or more.

You are right that the tribunal can't use discretion but it can find for you if there is strong grounds for being misled by TFL's process and/or people.

Add this email pl:

I was then off sick until the following Monday, so missed a correspondence email relating to the enquiry form I submitted with the v5c form. It said the vehicle wasn't already on an autopay service (with a line of question marks), but I checked again and saw it on our list (again, I didn't know the distinction), so I assumed the follow up email was an outdated response.

Tribunal or pay.

https://imgur.com/a/mOF8COT

Here is the history for one of the batched PCNs. I should note I never received an email for some reason.

After my first appeal, they requested phone call proof essentially. My rejected formal rep was as follows:

Hello, I just wanted to give a brief overview again, we bought a vehicle from another person, and it was sitting at our office as no one was using it immediately.
When an engineer popped a tyre, he had to use this vehicle.
I checked to see if one of my colleagues had already added it to our autopay fleet, but could not see the registration on our list. When I tried to add it, I was given a message that it was already on the previous owners account. It was then that I started going through the process of trying to get it added. The next time I checked, it was on our list. I did not realise it had to actually be added to our autopay fleet after this fact. Once we started receiving PCN's through our post, for tunnels and congestion charges, it was too late to retroactively pay, and quite a few have come through.

As instructed by your support, I have attached an image of the log of the phone call I initially made (It is from our work landline, the  phone number used is xxxx (xxxxx  with my extension of xxx).
I cannot remember the name of the woman who helped me, but I seem to remember her instructing me toward an online link where I uploaded the van's V5C form as shown in this accounts correspondence history, which I have also attached along with the V5C form.

I have also attached a screenshot of my search history on the day to show I was attempting to go through the process of contacting TFL and adding it to our system. I looked up the info the previous day and attempted in the morning the next day.

I have also attached proof of me undergoing the same process for getting the vehicle switched from the previous owners account for the Dartford Crossing charge, to prove that I we weren't intentionally trying to avoid paying fares for congestion and the tunnels. Dartford Charge support also added it to our account with no further input needed from me, unlike TFL autopay, which confused matters.

I would just like to reiterate that, as you can see from our account (xxxxx), we are a company that has a small fleet that have been honestly paying fares for a long time now, and would request that the fines are revoked and we pay the normal charges instead.

We also recently added some new vehicles earlier this year that went through without any problem, for some reason this most recent one didn't.

---------end---------

In essence, on Fri 30th I attempted to see if the vehicle was already on our list, but a search returned nothing. I tried to add a new vehicle, and was given the error that it was already on an autopay fleet. It was then that I phoned the support line, who instructed me to submit the v5c form via the enquiry form, as they couldn't do it over the phone due to data protection or something. That was the entire extent of the conversation.

The following Monday I believe (2nd) I checked the list again, and saw the reg was there! So I assumed all was well, as I didn't know it being on the list was one thing, and being on the autopay fleet was another. I actually saw the attached tfl response to the form (attached), on the day it was sent, but thought it was an outdated response as when I checked the list the vehicle was still there. There was no further instruction on the email, was just quite a quite abrupt reply. This is the part that concerns me with my chances at a tribunal to be honest, the email does state that it wasn't on an autopay fleet, but I explained my thought process a couple lines ago. I was under the assumption that it was on autopay the entire time, alas it wasn't.

I messed up my dates a bit here, I thought I missed the tfl email initially, but I was actually off sick the following week (w/c 9th) and returned on the 16th, which is when I first learned of the fines and started appealing.

Also, I haven't yet received the written letter of rejection, would they outline the reason for rejection? I'm considering cutting my losses and just paying, especially because of the tfl email part. I'm unsure if the tribunal would hear me out!


[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

Another small question, would there be two tribunals as I've received PCNs for both CC and the tunnels?

Yes. There are two separate sets of adjudicators, as you can see here: -
https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/
What I don't know is whether adjudicators are a single team covering both adjudication processes. If there is just a single team, they may agree to a single adjudication for all your PCNs, but I may be wrong. Best to ask London Tribunals, I think.

I have not been in contact with the previous owner, I didn't purchase the van and don't know who it is.

My understanding is that it was on the old owners autopay, but I then initiated the request to transfer it to our account by submitting proof that we're the registered keeper. (30th May)
As mentioned, I checked the following week (2nd June) and could now see it on our list, so I thought TFL had taken action and transferred it to our account (but not onto autopay, unbeknownst to me as it was my first time doing this)
The fact that we started receiving the PCNs must confirm that it had been taken off the old owners autopay.
 
Confusingly, a couple of days later I received the email response to my submitted proof (which I was under the impression TFL actioned) saying it wasn't on an autopay service, but I checked again and could see it was on our account and thus thought it was on our autopay, hence why I thought the response was outdated.

I guess it boils down to me not knowing there was a difference between it being added to our account, and to our autopay fleet. It would have been nice if TFL let me know in their email response to me of this difference, as surely they would have been able to see that it was on our account at that point but not our autopay, which was what my whole query was related to.
I'm quite saddened that TFL have shown no leniency thus far and that it's either the tribunal or cough up, I tried to get the point across that I had no intention of dodging fares and thought I'd added it to autopay, but to no avail thus far. Not sure if my situation would be considered by the tribunal or if I'd be wasting time and money.

Also just a sidenote that I didn't receive a confirmation email when I *actually* added the vehicle to autopay, I thought that I would.

Anyway, still no NoR letter received, I called up TFL about it yesterday and was told it should be on its way, and the discount period has been extended til the 22nd.

I appreciate that, when I say 'my' I do mean that in terms of my company, and I understand that it's not my personal liability but my company's.
I'll have to wait and see what my MD says in regards to a tribunal or paying, and who would appeal on behalf of us if we do take it further.