3. TFL PCN Parkign on a red route 46 109 Brixton Hill
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TFL PCN Parkign on a red route 46 109 Brixton Hill
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I hope someone can advise me; I received this PCN in October 2023 for parking on a red route. I posted on the Free Traffic Legal Advice facebook group and was advised to request the footage from TFL. I did this immediately however the footage did not arrive. I called back and requested it again and still it did not arrive. I then received a demand for £240 for late payment. I contacted them again and was informed that the PCN only went on hold for 14 days. I was not told this the previous two times I called. I appealed based on the lack of correct information from their call handlers which would have made a difference to how I would have handled the process. This was rejected. I can pay £240 by Tuesday 27 Feb or I can make a representation demonstrating I was in hospital or prison etc which prevented me from making a timely representation.
Therefore I need advice on how to proceed. I am thinking of putting an FOI request for the transcripts of the phone calls and also to find out how many requests they have as repeat requests as the footage does not turn up and making a representation again saying I had not been informed of the 14 day deadline. Therefore could they reset to the original PDF.
Here is the original PCN, the Charge certificate and the latest rejected (issued on 14 Feb, arrived 20 Feb severely cutting down my appeal time.

Alternatively, I can do nothing and wait for the court summons however, should this go against me would I have to pay more than £249? Do TFL pull out of court cases?

Thanks in advance

All PCNs are on my google drive https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/15ms4a_tcpDvZRO2FD-k5RaleO27Ol6ZI?usp=drive_link

Google location https://maps.app.goo.gl/T1dvX6NQMaQmUqHw5
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Re: TFL PCN Parkign on a red route 46 109 Brixton Hill
« Reply #1 on: »
Please release your link to Google Drive, access is denied at the moment.

There is no court summons in the process. All TfL do is register the debt with the Traffic Enforcement Centre, then issue an Order for Recovery. At this point you can submit a Statutory Declaration. This adds £9 to the amount.  In-time SDs are automatically accepted.
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Re: TFL PCN Parkign on a red route 46 109 Brixton Hill
« Reply #2 on: »
done relink - so if i do nothing it will only cost me an extra £9 and then what re Stat Declaration. Does this reset it? thanks
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Re: TFL PCN Parkign on a red route 46 109 Brixton Hill
« Reply #3 on: »

@Incandescent, on what grounds could a WS be submitted, none of those specified in the regs seems to apply? 

OP, as a general point do not correspond with any official body by phone alone.

Where are your representations?
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Re: TFL PCN Parkign on a red route 46 109 Brixton Hill
« Reply #4 on: »
For me, asking for the video is part of submitting representations, else why request one ?
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Re: TFL PCN Parkign on a red route 46 109 Brixton Hill
« Reply #5 on: »
I understand the sentiment, but the OP did submit reps, but they were late. IMO, to fall back on requesting the DVD could not succeed because these did not conform to the form and manner specified in the PCN.

We haven't seen the reps. OP, over to you pl, we need to see these.


And @Incandecent, surely not receiving the DVD constituted grounds of representation in itself and therefore nothing except the OP's misunderstanding prevented them from making reps in time.




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Re: TFL PCN Parkign on a red route 46 109 Brixton Hill
« Reply #6 on: »
I agree that the OP may not succeed is getting an SD accepted, as the grounds allowed on the SD are restricted. It's why I always tell people not to miss any deadlines on the PCN.

There is, of course, nothing to stop the OP from complaining to TfL about their appalling administration.
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Re: TFL PCN Parkign on a red route 46 109 Brixton Hill
« Reply #7 on: »
Here is the rep I sent after the charge notice. It seems to be debatable as to what can be done. I don't think I had a misunderstanding after requesting the DVD footage, I wasn't informed - there is a big difference between the two. I think it is there duty to give you all the correct information at each touchpoint and this has not happened. As I had already engaged with the process which was not fulfilled by TFL/Royal Mail and not informed about the hold being only 14 days then I think that negates their argument that I made a late representation. ANyway, the one I submitted is below and I will make the FOI requests mentioned in original post. If anyone can give me clear advice as to what to do before tonight, it will most gratefully be received as I earn very little and cant afford to pay it.

Thank you

PCN representation:
From viewing the footage the signage (at the side of the bay) is not clear to any motorist unless they are driving head on into the bay which would be impossible. To make the restrictions clear there needs to be signage at the head and foot of the bay as this is in the direct line of sight of the motorist. (See picture) Secondly, seeing two motorbikes parked in the bay lulled me into a false sense of security as I cannot find any information on TFL whether motorbikes are exempt from red routes during restricted hours. It is my belief that properly located signage would have prevented me from stopping in the bay.

Charge certificate representation:
I contacted TFL to receive the footage of the contravention on 1 November - I was not informed of the 14-day on hold timescale at this time. The footage did not arrive, and I called back on 30 November, I was told the PCN had been on hold since 4 November but not that there was a 14-day limit. Therefore, TFL missed two occasions to give me correct information which would have affected the outcome of my handling of the appeal. It was agreed that TFL would send the footage again. I did not receive it again and thought it may be down to the Xmas post however a Charge certificate was issued without me having any recourse to the footage. I called again saying this is not right as I haven’t been sent the footage. This was sent registered post and I received it within a few days. If TFL had informed me on 1 November and 30 November that there was a 14 day hold limit, then I would have responded well within the time frame rather than wait for the footage to (not) turn up.
There is no reason for me to research further as I had been in contact with TFL and did not know that they had not given me full information so that I could make an informed decision.
Therefore, the PCN needs to be reset to the original discounted amount and the above representation to be taken into consideration.
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Re: TFL PCN Parkign on a red route 46 109 Brixton Hill
« Reply #8 on: »
Please post their refusal letter.
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Re: TFL PCN Parkign on a red route 46 109 Brixton Hill
« Reply #9 on: »
OP, you're confusing matters a little.

Your timeline:
PCN issued 28 Oct 2023;
End of 28-day period for reps 27 Nov.
Your 'PCN representation' dated ???;(see below)
First phone call to TfL asking for DVD 1 Nov;
Second phone call 30 Nov;
CC issued 5 Jan;
Your 'Charge certificate representation' dated ???;
Their Late Representation Disregard dated 14 Feb;

*However, your last post refers to 'PCN representation' which is new, you've not referred to this previously but it is rather important.
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Re: TFL PCN Parkign on a red route 46 109 Brixton Hill
« Reply #10 on: »
Sorry if you are confused. I set out the timeline in my original post. I received the PCN in November and I contacted TFL for footage following advice from the FB group. The DVD did not turn up so I called them again and they said they would send it. In either of these phone calls was I told there was a 14-day limit for the PCN being on hold. Again it did not turn up but a CHarge Certificate did. I followed advice again which was to make a representation and I received the footage as they sent it registered post this time. This was rejected. I have included on the link in my first post the original PCN, the Charge Certificate and the rejection of the representation. You asked for a copy of my represeantion which was my last post. Is this any clearer? Today I have made a FOI request for the transcripts.
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Re: TFL PCN Parkign on a red route 46 109 Brixton Hill
« Reply #11 on: »
here is the link to all the documents All PCNs are on my google drive https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/15ms4a_tcpDvZRO2FD-k5RaleO27Ol6ZI?usp=drive_link
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Re: TFL PCN Parkign on a red route 46 109 Brixton Hill
« Reply #12 on: »
You're missing my point.

To what does this refer, it doesn't appear in your timeline:

PCN representation:
From viewing the footage the signage (at the side of the bay) is not clear to any motorist unless they are driving head on into the bay which would be impossible. To make the restrictions clear there needs to be signage at the head and foot of the bay as this is in the direct line of sight of the motorist. (See picture) Secondly, seeing two motorbikes parked in the bay lulled me into a false sense of security as I cannot find any information on TFL whether motorbikes are exempt from red routes during restricted hours. It is my belief that properly located signage would have prevented me from stopping in the bay.

You wrote to the council once or twice?
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Re: TFL PCN Parkign on a red route 46 109 Brixton Hill
« Reply #13 on: »
Hi apologies, I'm not au fait with correct terminology. Where it says PCN representation it is the Charge Certificate representation which I mention as an appeal in the timeline. I appreciate that this has caused confusion. `i have only written to the council once. Should I pay it or is there a chance of putting in a representation?
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Re: TFL PCN Parkign on a red route 46 109 Brixton Hill
« Reply #14 on: »
here is the charge certificate rejection, if I do nothing then TFL will apply to the County Court costing a further £9. I will be sent an Order of Recovery and will have the opportunity to make a statutory declaration.

Does this mean it can be reset to the original £80? Is this the best course of action?

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  3. TFL PCN Parkign on a red route 46 109 Brixton Hill