3. TfL PCN 50r Performing a prohibited turn (No right turn)
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Re: TfL PCN 50r Performing a prohibited turn (No right turn)
« Reply #15 on: »
I cannot see any traffic signs in the video other than the road marking Ahead Only with an arrow. This is a regulatory sign, but does failure to comply give rise to the cited contravention? IMO, no.

The PCN is certainly flawed. Hippocrates is the expert regarding the wording on page 1, but (and I hadn't noticed this before) they also misstate their power/duty on page 3.

The PCN states:
Your representation may be disregarded if it is received more than 28 days after service of this notice. [/b]

OP, the Act requires that a PCN 'must state':

3)The enforcing authority may disregard any such representations which are received by them after the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the penalty charge notice in question was served.

I've emphasised the key words to illustrate why what is written is not what's mandated. '28 days after service' is a period which is 1 day longer than '28 days beginning with the date of service'.

Not only is this wrong in its own right, it conflicts with page 1.

This is because the authority may not serve a charge certificate to increase the penalty until the period for making reps has elapsed. Page 1 says they can if, among other matters, you have not made reps before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of service.

They've really got themselves into a pickle!
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Re: TfL PCN 50r Performing a prohibited turn (No right turn)
« Reply #16 on: »
This is what the PCN must state:

A penalty charge notice under this section must—

(a)state—

(i)the grounds on which the council or, as the case may be, Transport for London believe that the penalty charge is payable with respect to the vehicle;

(ii)the amount of the penalty charge which is payable;

(iii)that the penalty charge must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of the notice;

(iv)that if the penalty charge is paid before the end of the period of 14 days beginning with the date of the notice, the amount of the penalty charge will be reduced by the specified proportion;

(v)that, if the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the 28 day period, an increased charge may be payable;

(vi)the amount of the increased charge;

(vii)the address to which payment of the penalty charge must be sent; and

(viii)that the person on whom the notice is served may be entitled to make representations under paragraph 1 of Schedule 1 to this Act; and

(b)specify the form in which any such representations are to be made.

******************

Only this. Not elements from Schedule 1 actually.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2025, 01:05:30 pm by Hippocrates »
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IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r
Re: TfL PCN 50r Performing a prohibited turn (No right turn)
« Reply #17 on: »
A PCN must be clear and not confuse.

IMO, the following sections provide sufficient support for any argument relating to the 'may disregard' point:

(viii)that the person on whom the notice is served may be entitled to make representations under paragraph 1 of Schedule 1 to this Act; and

(b)specify the form in which any such representations are to be made.

IMO, given that the reference to 'disregard' is in s1 of Schedule 1, 'specifying the form..' would include the time period. I would certainly argue this point. 
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Re: TfL PCN 50r Performing a prohibited turn (No right turn)
« Reply #18 on: »
Schedule 1 does not need to be included.
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IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r
Re: TfL PCN 50r Performing a prohibited turn (No right turn)
« Reply #19 on: »
Prior to ss (viii) of S 4 of the Act doesn't refer to representations at all, their first and only mention is in ss(viii). Therefore, if interpreted too narrowly, the defence of conflation could not succeed because there's no requirement for the PCN to refer to representations at all because S4 doesn't. But it does succeed, and you've been successful with arguments based in this very point, therefore IMO it must follow that adjudicators regard para. 1 of Schedule 1 to be mandatory by virtue of ss(viii). 

If we disagree, so be it, let's not distract the OP.

For me:
Where's the signage?
If the road marking, then the contravention is wrong;
Whose car?
Flawed wording of PCN
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Re: TfL PCN 50r Performing a prohibited turn (No right turn)
« Reply #20 on: »
# removed comment #
« Last Edit: November 12, 2025, 04:59:00 pm by JoCo »
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Re: TfL PCN 50r Performing a prohibited turn (No right turn)
« Reply #21 on: »
Quote from: H C Andersen on November 12, 2025, 11:14:46 am
I cannot see any traffic signs in the video other than the road marking Ahead Only with an arrow.

Quote from: Incandescent on October 22, 2025, 07:19:45 pm
The No Right Turn applies to the road the OP took, see here the two NRT signs : -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/iBcNcpSRExT9KauU7

You can see the NRT on right hand side of road in video.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2025, 05:09:00 pm by JoCo »
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Re: TfL PCN 50r Performing a prohibited turn (No right turn)
« Reply #22 on: »
Apologies,

I have just realised I had misinterpreted the video evidence.

I had assumed that the two videos were in chronological order and that the first video showed the car at the traffic lights before the right turn.

I now realise that the first video shows the car after the turn, and that both videos show a car stopped in same position.  It can be shown to be the same car, as the time stamp is 15:57:00 on both videos then.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2025, 01:36:16 am by JoCo »
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Re: TfL PCN 50r Performing a prohibited turn (No right turn)
« Reply #23 on: »
Thanks for the pointer to a sign.

OP, how did you approach this junction?
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Re: TfL PCN 50r Performing a prohibited turn (No right turn)
« Reply #24 on: »
Quote from: H C Andersen on November 13, 2025, 08:14:04 am
OP, how did you approach this junction?


The OP has answered this question above.

Quote from: Rudeboyz on October 28, 2025, 07:57:09 am
I was attempting to defeat the no right turn.

Previously the road markings & signage clearly stated that only buses could do the right turn at the junction of Prince of Wales Road/Stratheden Road, onto Shooters Hill Road.

So it was a common practice to crossover the junction & traffic permitting, turn right slightly further down on Stratheden Road, into the slip lane that exits onto Shooters Hill Road.

Google Street View location below I think shows the junction before the cctv cameras were installed.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/pNeaAMisZgXnbfed8


I guess you could be hinting that if the OP had come from a different direction, the NRT signs might not be so clear?

The only other direction the OP could have come from is along Shooters Hill Road, due  East, taken a left turn here, then "whoops a daisy, wrong turn" immediately turned right onto the slip, to regain the same road as before.

Shooters Hill - facing East at junction


But I think the NRT signs are clear.

Nb. It is not permissible to take the right hand turn, from Shooters Hill Road due west, as NRT except buses at this junction.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2025, 11:35:03 am by JoCo »
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