Hi, I'm seeking some guidance regarding a PCN I recently received from TFL for Stopping in a Box Junction. I'm reaching out to the knowledgeable members of this forum for their expert opinions on whether I have grounds to challenge or appeal this notice.
I've already reached out to TFL, and they've placed the PCN on hold until 15th June, 2024, while they provide me with the relevant footage.
Below, I've included the email I sent to TFL and their response for your reference.
I appreciate any insights or advice you can offer on this matter. Apologies in advance for long winded post.
Unfortunately for some reason i have the dash cam footage after the contravention but not the actual contravention itself. I think dash cam only saved protected data when moved from stationary and over ridden the rest.
My email to TFL:
Dear Sirs,
I hope this email finds you well.
Please find attached my completed Subject Access Request Form, along with a copy of my driving license and a recent full picture, as required for the request.
I am writing to request access to CCTV footage regarding Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) reference number GX14838638, issued on 04/05/2024, at 14:00, at Southern Arm Target Roundabout UB5. I received notice of this PCN on the afternoon of 11th May 2025, despite it being dated 09th May 2024, which I understand may be attributed to the typical delivery time for mail.
I am seeking this footage to clarify the circumstances surrounding the aforementioned PCN. Specifically, I require footage of the incident involving a black Skoda Kodiaq with the registration PB06 AMB. Additionally, I am requesting footage from the onboard cameras of the TFL bus with registration LK64 EHW. The PCN only includes two images, timestamped at 14:00:30.1 BST and 14:00:52.5 BST, depicting the vehicle's movement from Church Rd/A312 to Western Ave/A40 via the slip road to M25/Oxford/Uxbridge. It is imperative to review additional footage to accurately assess the events leading to the PCN issuance.
During the incident, the black Skoda Kodiaq vehicle registration PB06 AMB encountered interference from a TFL bus, registration LK64 EHW, which executed an incorrect U-turn on the roundabout, heading towards Northolt. This manoeuvre caused the vehicle to momentarily halt in a box junction, necessitating further investigation into the events recorded by the CCTV cameras.
Moreover, it's crucial to highlight that the incident leading to the PCN issuance was exacerbated by the erroneous manoeuvre of the TFL bus. The bus was in the incorrect lane for its intended exit, and it left a significant gap in front, effectively blocking the lane change for other vehicles and resulting in a temporary stoppage. The bus, positioned in the exit lane to Western Ave/A40 via the slip road to M25/Oxford/Uxbridge, should have been in the middle lane as it was taking the fourth exit towards Church Rd/A312 leading to Northolt.
In addition to the requested footage for vehicle registration PB06 AMB, can I please request access to CCTV footage from the onboard cameras of the TFL bus with registration LK64 EHW. Given that these buses are equipped with CCTV, this footage will provide valuable insight into the incident and aid in its resolution.
Furthermore, upon reviewing the footage from car's dashcam, I noticed discrepancies in the timing of the images provided with the PCN. To address this concern, I would appreciate your assistance with the following inquiries regarding the Southern Arm Target Roundabout UB5 CCTV camera:
- Details regarding the last servicing and calibration of the camera and sensor equipment, including dates of the previous service and calibration.
- Due dates for the next servicing and calibration.
- Manufacturer recommendations regarding the timeframes between servicing and calibration.
- The initial installation date of the camera and sensor equipment.
- Manufacturer recommendations regarding the lifespan of the camera and sensor equipment.
Additionally, can I please request that the PCN be placed on hold pending the review and provision of the requested CCTV footage. Although I am aware that I have 14 days from the date of the notice to make payment, with a 50% reduced charge, given the discrepancy in the date of receipt, I urge for an extension of this deadline to ensure a fair and thorough review of the evidence.
In light of these circumstances, can I please request your prompt attention to this matter and a timely response regarding the provision of the requested CCTV footage. Furthermore, I ask for confirmation of the extension of the deadline for payment of the PCN pending the review of the evidence.
Thank you for your understanding and cooperation.
TFL response:
Thank you for your email, received 13 May 2024, regarding Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) GX14838638.
Please be advised, Yellow Box Junctions (YBJs) are put in place to keep the junctions clear for through-traffic and to avoid traffic jams. They also keep the road space free to ensure fire engines always have a clear exit from fire stations.
You MUST NOT enter the box until your exit road or lane is clear. However, you may enter a YBJ and wait when you want to turn right and are only stopped from doing so by oncoming traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to turn right.
Also, a vehicle may enter a YBJ when its exit is clear and there is enough space on the other side of the junction for the vehicle to clear the box junction completely, without stopping.
This said, your vehicle PB06AMB was observed entering and becoming stationary in the YBJ at SOUTHERN ARM TARGET ROUNDABOUT UB5 on 04 May 2024.
Please be advised the photographs provided on the PCN are primarily used to demonstrate the registered keeper’s vehicle was at the location at the time of the contravention. All CCTV contraventions are recorded on digital storage media and are obtainable from Transport for London (TfL) on request.
TfL uses CCTV cameras in locations on the road network across London for the purpose of live traffic monitoring, to help keep London moving, and to help manage congestion, disruption and major events that can affect the roads.
CCTV operators based in TfL's Road Network Compliance Team may observe a contravention via their real-time monitoring of our network of both fixed and mobile CCTV cameras. CCTV operators will have a very limited amount of time to collate the evidence required to issue PCNs for multiple contravening vehicles. Where this is the case, only the footage relevant to the contravention will be recorded and used to issue a PCN to the registered keeper, by post.
I can confirm, I have arranged for a copy of the CCTV footage in relation to PCN GX14838638 to be sent to you under separate cover.
Having reviewed the CCTV footage, I can confirm your vehicle PB06AMB was observed entering the YBJ before it’s exit lane is clear at 14:00:17. At 14:00:23, your vehicle switches lanes (behind the bus), before its exit lane is clear and subsequently stops within the YBJ at 14:00:29. Your vehicle moves forward at 14:00:42, before becoming stationary again at 14:00:43. Your vehicle remains stationary until it moves to exit the YBJ at 14:00:47. Your vehicle is observed stationary in the YBJ for a total of 17 seconds.
I appreciate you stating that you were forced to become stationary in the YBJ due to the actions of the bus with number plate LK64EHW, however, it is the driver’s responsibility to ensure a correct judgement is made when entering a YBJ and attempting to cross over the traffic lights. You should not simply follow the vehicle in front, as it may stop and prevent your exit.
As your vehicle was observed entering the box junction before its exit lane was clear and subsequently becoming stationary within the box junction, a contravention occurred and PCN GX14838638 was therefore issued.
To clarify, in the event a vehicle is captured contravening regulations on the Transport for London Road Network (TLRN), details of the vehicle in question are sent to the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA), which then supplies particulars of the registered keeper for the vehicle in question. When this information is received, a PCN is created and sent to the name and address of the registered keeper as provided by the DVLA.
PCN GX14838638 was therefore issued to you on 09 May 2024 using the details provided by the DVLA.
The PCN was issued at a standard rate of £160.00 and advised that if the penalty charge is paid before the end of the period of 14 days beginning with the date of the notice, the amount of the penalty charge will be reduced by 50% (£80.00).
Non-payment of the PCN at the standard or discounted rate or failing to submit a representation (before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of service of the notice), may lead to the issue of a Charge Certificate, which increases the outstanding amount of the PCN by 50% (£240.00).
I can confirm that PCN GX14838638 will be placed on hold until 15 June 2024, giving you enough time to review the footage, once received.
I have reviewed your enquiry regarding the ‘Southern Arm Target Roundabout UB5’ CCTV camera. Please see details below for details of the information you requested:
- Details regarding the last servicing and calibration of the camera and sensor equipment, including dates of the previous service and calibration:
Date of last Periodic Inspection: 15 November 2023
Date of previous Periodic Inspection: 17 May 2023
- Due dates for the next servicing and calibration
Date of Next Periodic Inspection: 08 June 2024 (+/- 4 weeks)
- Manufacturer recommendations regarding the timeframes between servicing and calibration:
Not specified in the Manufacturer’s Data Sheet.
- The initial installation date of the camera and sensor equipment.
Site first installed: 01 November 1999
Current CCTV camera installation date: 10 January 2023
- Manufacturer recommendations regarding the lifespan of the camera and sensor equipment:
Manufacturer states the following in the camera Data Sheet:- “Unsurpassed reliability - As with all Bosch products, the camera is designed using the industry’s best design process and is subjected to the most stringent testing standards such as HALT (highly accelerated life testing), which pushes the limits of products to ensure reliability throughout their lifetime
Regarding your request for the CCTV footage from the onboard cameras of the TFL bus with registration LK64EHW, please be advised London's bus services are operated by individual bus companies on behalf of TfL. Any CCTV on London buses is the responsibility of the company that runs that particular service or route. TfL does not hold CCTV footage from buses. You will therefore need to contact the relevant bus operator, who operates that particular bus route, if you require access to images/footage.
Having reviewed the case, I am satisfied that the PCN was correctly issued in accordance with the relevant regulations. Please be advised, to make a payment or challenge the PCN, you will need to follow the instructions on the PCN.
I trust the above provides a clarification, but please let me know if I can be of any further assistance. Thank you for contacting us.
