Author Topic: TFL, Code 31 - Box Junction, Marylebone Rd / Park Crescent West  (Read 394 times)

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Pastmybest

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Re: TFL, Code 31 - Box Junction, Marylebone Rd / Park Crescent West
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2024, 04:29:50 pm »
We need to see all of the video not just part of it and all of the PCN excepting your personal details. Is the car leased or owned?

The case reference is for the case Tran scripted below the ref number and is one of many
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willdudeuk

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Re: TFL, Code 31 - Box Junction, Marylebone Rd / Park Crescent West
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2024, 05:36:51 pm »
Hi the car is owned by myself.

All the PCN details / paperwork are at the beginning of this thread if thatís what you need?

Regarding the video evidence that is all that TFL have provided to me. Do you believe it is insufficient @Pastmybest

ManxTom

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Re: TFL, Code 31 - Box Junction, Marylebone Rd / Park Crescent West
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2024, 10:09:14 pm »
The contravention is causing a vehicle to enter the box then having to stop due to the presence of stationary vehicles

The video does not show the entry into the box nor the reason for the stop, ...

Perhaps I'm mistaken but the video does show both doesn't it?  From 54 secs et seq...

Incandescent

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Re: TFL, Code 31 - Box Junction, Marylebone Rd / Park Crescent West
« Reply #18 on: April 27, 2024, 12:11:46 am »
The video is in two parts, so one must allow it to run. I got caught out by this last year. The latter half shows entry into the box. There are two cameras in use, the one zoomed-in, and the other with a high level view. The clock times link the frames.

willdudeuk

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Re: TFL, Code 31 - Box Junction, Marylebone Rd / Park Crescent West
« Reply #19 on: April 27, 2024, 08:03:36 am »
So looks like I will need pay this then? No wiggle room out? Unless there are anymore suggestions? Appreciate all the help and support so far. Thank you.

Incandescent

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Re: TFL, Code 31 - Box Junction, Marylebone Rd / Park Crescent West
« Reply #20 on: April 27, 2024, 10:07:11 am »
So looks like I will need pay this then? No wiggle room out? Unless there are anymore suggestions? Appreciate all the help and support so far. Thank you.
Not necessarily !
Whilst the contravention seems to be made out, wait a bit until the TfL experts have spoken, because TfL are failing in their management of the enforcement process. This, on its own, can get a PCN cancelled. However don't miss any deadline on the PCN.

willdudeuk

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Re: TFL, Code 31 - Box Junction, Marylebone Rd / Park Crescent West
« Reply #21 on: April 27, 2024, 10:17:00 am »
@Incandescent so what are my next steps please?

I am not sure what to put in my challenge / representation to the TFL experts if thatís who you are referring to?

Unless you mean the members on this forum?

Also I am not sure on timings as it still says the PCN is on hold.

Not sure when I need to challenge by or pay if you can confirm? Thank you.


 

Incandescent

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Re: TFL, Code 31 - Box Junction, Marylebone Rd / Park Crescent West
« Reply #22 on: April 27, 2024, 10:51:55 am »
You need to find out from TfL how long they have put the PCN on hold for, based on the date it was out on hold and what the revised deadline is for submitting reps or paying. The experts of TfL would seem to be Hippocrates, and the administrator, cp8759. So maybe PM one of them ?  I'm not an expert in overturning TfL PCNs on technicalities.

willdudeuk

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Re: TFL, Code 31 - Box Junction, Marylebone Rd / Park Crescent West
« Reply #23 on: April 27, 2024, 03:34:14 pm »
Ok thank you.

Any ideas please @Hippocrates @cp8759 ?

Thank you

cp8759

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Re: TFL, Code 31 - Box Junction, Marylebone Rd / Park Crescent West
« Reply #24 on: April 27, 2024, 04:37:33 pm »
@willdudeuk it looks like the PCN is on hold until 7 May, but you want to get representation in asap.

This might be one for the strategy of last resort, but it's reliant on you having some meaningful mitigation to put forwards.

As long as you make a representation while the discount is still on offer, the penalty won't increase. For whatever reason if your representation is rejected and you appeal to the tribunal while the discount is still on offer, TFL currently only asks for the discounted penalty even if the appeal is refused, so there's little reason not to take this all the way.
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative councillor, this means some people think I am "scum". I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

willdudeuk

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Re: TFL, Code 31 - Box Junction, Marylebone Rd / Park Crescent West
« Reply #25 on: April 27, 2024, 05:06:46 pm »
Thanks @cp8759

I am not sure I have any reasonable mitigation I can offer.

There has been a family bereavement but itís probably not recent enough (over a year ago).

Unless you can down the route I was having a particularly low day post the Birthday of the passed close family member (my Father). But the birthday is mid March.

Regarding the strategies you provide in your link I have a few questions.


Strategy 1

How would I make an appeal to the authorityís discretionary power not to enforce? Is that applicable here for TFL? The council for the area the contravention occurred would be City Of Westminster.

What do you mean that the tribunal cannot allow an appeal on this basis? Is that my right to appeal or TFL?


Strategy 2

How do I setup a page with a link for the image or video evidence that has a click counter?

Also what evidence what that be? Could it be anything or does it need to be meaningful and related to the mitigating circumstances?


If you could kindly help me with drafting a representation to TFL. I would be eternally greatful @cp8759   

Thank you


cp8759

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Re: TFL, Code 31 - Box Junction, Marylebone Rd / Park Crescent West
« Reply #26 on: April 27, 2024, 05:13:41 pm »
For a TFL penalty, just replace the word "council" with Transport for London, as that is the authority you have to deal with.

There is no right of appeal against a PCN, there is only a right to make representations to the enforcement authority (which in this case is Transport for London). You can make representations on whatever grounds you want, some grounds are statutory grounds of appeal (these are listed on the PCN itself), anything that isn't a statutory ground of appeal is known as mitigation.

Transport for London has a power to accept representations on whatever grounds it wants, whether they are statutory grounds of appeal or not.

If the representations are rejected you have the right to appeal the London Tribunals, but the tribunal can only allow an appeal based on the statutory grounds, the tribunal adjudicator cannot allow an appeal on non-statutory grounds no matter how compelling the reasons might be. But if Transport for London fails in its duty to consider the representations, that in itself gives you a statutory ground on the basis of which you can appeal to the tribunal.

I suggest you draft up something based on what you've told us re: your later father's birthday, don't worry about setting up a link with a click counter as I will do that for you.

Do you have the death certificate to hand?
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative councillor, this means some people think I am "scum". I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

willdudeuk

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Re: TFL, Code 31 - Box Junction, Marylebone Rd / Park Crescent West
« Reply #27 on: April 27, 2024, 05:28:31 pm »
Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions and get back to me so promptly @cp8759 it makes a lot more sense now.

I shall get a draft written up and obtain a copy of the death certificate as I donít have it to hand.

Need to act on this quickly before the 7th May so I can still have the opportunity to pay the reduced fine of £80 if the representation doesnít work.

Hopefully they donít click on the evidence so I can take them to the tribunal under statutory grounds for failure to consider. Fingers crossed!

Thank you once again.

willdudeuk

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Re: TFL, Code 31 - Box Junction, Marylebone Rd / Park Crescent West
« Reply #28 on: April 30, 2024, 08:22:26 am »
Morning @cp8759, I've got a copy of the certificate now, so will get typing up a representation and post it up here for advice and help if that's ok. Would ideally like to get it submitted today 7 days before the due date of 7th May. Thank you.

cp8759

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Re: TFL, Code 31 - Box Junction, Marylebone Rd / Park Crescent West
« Reply #29 on: April 30, 2024, 09:24:20 am »
@willdudeuk please tag me when you post the draft and I'll try and look at it today.
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative councillor, this means some people think I am "scum". I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order