Free Traffic Legal Advice

I was coming out of Windmill Road, heading South after the traffic lights turned green. To turn right onto the A4 you have to drive over one box junction on the East bound carriageway to get to the middle where you can then wait and turn right onto the West bound carriage way (via another box junction).

The car in front of me was also turning right so I slowed to give it some space with my back wheels in the first box. The bus coming the other way and the cars behind the bus then blocked the West bound right turn meaning. I could have pulled further forward, right up against the car in front, but didn't feel it was necessary - there was space as can be seen in the picture. The car in front also could have pulled further forward, into the West bound box junction, as you are allowed to enter a box junction when turning right.

My understanding is that it is OK to enter a box junction to turn right, which is what I was doing. It is complicated by the fact that there are two that you have to drive through with a break in the middle. If it were a single box, I would be fine to enter to turn right. I also feel the timing of the image is misleading - the bus was there at 19:37:53, it is gone 4 seconds later and the car in front of me is just about to turn right. The white van behind me has caused the issue as the Audi cannot turn right Eastbound, which prevents us from turning right Westbound.

Street view: https://maps.app.goo.gl/MHgkFr1uRegYN1T36

https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/view-pcn-details?pcnId=GX27135721&vrm=MT65TWD&journey=View&skippedIssuedPage=true

PCN: GX27135721
Number plate: MT65TWD

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Without the video footage it's hard to give any advice. The photos in the PCN are too grainy.

If you genuinely had space to move forward and clear the box then no contravention has occurred and you can challenge on that basis (it's only a contravention if you get blocked in the box due to a stationary vehicle).

I would normally recommend calling TFL to request the video footage (and asking them to put the clock on hold while it wait). However I did spot one of the forum experts (cp8759) advise against this recently although I didn't see why. Perhaps @stamfordman could confirm?

We've also seen at least one case win on appeal on the basis TFL make it extremely difficult to view the video evidence which is prejudicial to any appeal. Even if they do send it, you then have to find a dvd player to view it on!

Just wanted to add, in case anyone else sees this post, that I have successfully had the PCN cancelled without having to pay anything.

As it is TFL, I also posted in the TFL specific part of this forum and received specific advice.

If you are in a similar situation, post there instead of this main thread.

Quote from: THEgaDJet on September 18, 2025, 02:08:01 pm

Just wanted to add, in case anyone else sees this post, that I have successfully had the PCN cancelled without having to pay anything.

As it is TFL, I also posted in the TFL specific part of this forum and received specific advice.

If you are in a similar situation, post there instead of this main thread.

Can I ask how you did this? I got stuck there momentarily behind a white van and I'm dreading the PCN.

If you go to this section of the forum here https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/tfl-red-route-postal-pcns/ you'll find some info on what to do and who to contact specifically.

You do need to wait to receive the PCN and follow some specific instructions, but it was worth it!