Author Topic: TFL, Bus Lane contravention, N circular Rd Btw Chequers Way Green Lanes  (Read 1330 times)

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I received this PCN from TFL by post today. The notice is dated 06/07/2024 but received it 9 days later. The notice says that the 50% reduced rate is payable if "paid before the end of the period of 14 days beginning with the date of this notice". I was expecting it to be 14 days from the date the letter was received. This is a bit unfair that now I have only 5 days remaining to pay £80 and accept liability, or wait until the full 28 days to be then served with the enforcement notice and presumably become liable to pay the full £160 fine.

Incidentally, there are houses along that section of road next to the problematic bus lane. Access to those require you to drive into the bus lane in order to drive into the respective parking spaces for the houses. There is nothing to say the driver was not intending to visit any of those premises that day.

Having looked at this notice is there anything that can be done? If not I am tempted to pay the reduced amount before the time expires instead of waiting the 28 days and ending up with with the full charge.

PCN - https://imgur.com/a/cYjtWuo

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We always advise fighting bus lane tickets!
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Thanks. I can wait out the 28 days. But it would be good to know on what grounds I would fight the ticket.

You can get a delay by contacting TfL and request the video of the alleged contravention. They send this out as a DVD, and put the PCN on hold for 2 weeks. We need to see the video to decide if there is a credible appeal argument to take to London Tribunals. If you submit reps, TfL will refuse anything you say, because they know most people then just cough-up. Once you get the DVD, upload it to here for assessment. If you haven't received the video towards the end of the hold period, contact TfL to ask for the DVD again. It may be prudent to submit a simple representation at that point so as not to lose your option of going to London Tribunals.

With TfL, there may be a technical appeal argument, but I'll let the experts tell you about that.
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This PCN has serious flaws re service of an Enforcement Notice, when - not if - they will send one. The Interpretation Act reference is entirely irrelevant! Actions start from the date of the notice.

I will draft something shortly.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2024, 09:03:16 pm by Hippocrates »
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Dear TFL

Ref:  PCN
      VRM

I make this initial challenge as follows:

The PCN is unenforceable because:

1. The reference to The Interpretation Act is both irrelevant and confusing as the legislation pertaining to Bus Lane enforcement refers to actions which may be taken by the authority and/or appellant from the date of the notice.

2. The statement: "Any written correspondence before the issue of the Enforcement Notice will not be treated as a formal representation." fetters discretion and is contrary to the legislation in that it clearly implies that you will send an Enforcement Notice when the legislation states "may" at 4(3)(e)

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/1996/9/section/4/enacted

3. The statement: "It will not entitle you to the right of appeal." is both absurd and flies in the face of the law and natural justice. Further, the next statement about consideration seems to contradict what has been previously stated.

4. The statement: "Failure to respond or contact us within 28 days of the service date of this notice will result in the Enforcement Notice automatically being sent to you after this period." similarly fetters discretion and also misstates the time period.

Request for the video

I ask for a copy asap please.

The alleged contravention did not occur

The embedded photograph on the PCN  lacks any proof of relevant signage either passed or in situ.

Camera authorisation


I put you to strict proof that the camera used to capture the alleged contravention has the correct certification. If this is not forthcoming, this will be another ground of appeal.

In light of the above, please cancel the PCN,

Name

Addresss
« Last Edit: July 17, 2024, 01:20:43 pm by Hippocrates »
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

@cp8759 do you have the email contact for TFL please? I should have it somewhere.  :-[
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Thanks! That is very helpful. I have already raised an enquiry asking for the video and any other evidence related to this PCN. Should I make the initial challenge using the same process, by raising an enquiry regarding the PCN on the TFL website? There doesn’t seem to be any obvious route to send any formal representation at this stage, unless there is a way.

I don’t think I have the email contact. I had to raise an enquiry on the website. If there is one it would be really helpful.

cp will have it.
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Thanks, Hippocrates. I have submitted the initial challenge using your draft. Interestingly, the challenge has to be submitted on this site - https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/red-routes, rather than the site indicated in the letter. The PCN can also be viewed there. The enforcement is paused and now I wait to see what they come up with

Ah yes I remember now.  Sorry the last cases I did were two years ago and have mislaid the e mail address.
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Re: TFL, Bus Lane contravention, N circular Rd Btw Chequers Way Green Lanes
« Reply #12 on: »
Did you hear back about the appeal as I got ticket same place. Used to have no bus lane cameras only recently put them up

Re: TFL, Bus Lane contravention, N circular Rd Btw Chequers Way Green Lanes
« Reply #13 on: »
Not yet. I challenged the PCN as Hippocrates suggested. TFL has paused the enforcement and they have 28 days to respond. So I’ll find out what they say later.

Re: TFL, Bus Lane contravention, N circular Rd Btw Chequers Way Green Lanes
« Reply #14 on: »
Finally received response from TFL to my challenge letter. They are not willing to budge, as expected, and will send the formal Enforcement Notice within 28 days. I will then be able to make a formal representation against that.

Their grounds for rejecting my challenge was a bit shaky. They ended up saying in one sentence that "Case law reflects we need to be substantially compliant with the mandatory information we are required to place on a PCN, and we consider we are at least substantially compliant if not compliant." Make what you will of that.

The video evidence apparently is coming in a separate post. There was no response to the point on Camera Authorisation. 

Also their response letter is dated 20/08/2024 and is more than 28 days after my initial challenge.

Here is their response in full - https://imgur.com/a/ZFWUtow
« Last Edit: September 05, 2024, 12:17:51 pm by RW33 »
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