3. TFL - Bromley Road 46: Stopped where prohibited
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TFL - Bromley Road 46: Stopped where prohibited
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TFL - Bromley Road 46: Stopped where prohibited

Hi there, please could I get assistance with appealing this alleged contravention..my missus had parked for literally less than 2 minutes to buy water for my our daughter.








Thanks for your assistance
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Re: TFL - Bromley Road 46: Stopped where prohibited
« Reply #1 on: »
PCN is no good on its own; we need to see where the vehicle was parked/stopped. If you could post-up a GSV link telling us exactly where you parked it would help.

PCN says o/s 415-418 Bromley Road, so here is a GSV link: -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/Xgruoyeb1CwiMGTo8
There is a parking bay allowing 1 hour between 0700 to 16.00. Outside that it is No Stopping up to 19.00.  Your PCN has the contravention at 18.08, so well within the restricted times.

There is a case at Judicial Review by Transport for London, following a London Tribunals decision that CCTV could not be used for enforcing parking bays on Red Routes. However, no decision yet. If TfL lose, you'll have a get-out-of-jail-free card.  If they win, you look to be bang-to-rights on the face of it.
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Re: TFL - Bromley Road 46: Stopped where prohibited
« Reply #2 on: »
Quote from: Incandescent on November 06, 2023, 06:04:54 pm
PCN is no good on its own; we need to see where the vehicle was parked/stopped. If you could post-up a GSV link telling us exactly where you parked it would help.

PCN says o/s 415-418 Bromley Road, so here is a GSV link: -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/Xgruoyeb1CwiMGTo8
There is a parking bay allowing 1 hour between 0700 to 16.00. Outside that it is No Stopping up to 19.00.  Your PCN has the contravention at 18.08, so well within the restricted times.

There is a case at Judicial Review by Transport for London, following a London Tribunals decision that CCTV could not be used for enforcing parking bays on Red Routes. However, no decision yet. If TfL lose, you'll have a get-out-of-jail-free card.  If they win, you look to be bang-to-rights on the face of it.

I see and thanks for posting the GSV also..so would you suggest waiting for the outcome of the TFl Judicial review?
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Re: TFL - Bromley Road 46: Stopped where prohibited
« Reply #3 on: »
No, because you could miss the deadline for submitting reps, (or paying, of course). That would mean game, set, and match to Transport for London. You need to submit something. Hopefully by the time TfL reply, we'll know about the judicial review.
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Re: TFL - Bromley Road 46: Stopped where prohibited
« Reply #4 on: »
Quote from: Incandescent on November 07, 2023, 10:39:13 am
No, because you could miss the deadline for submitting reps, (or paying, of course). That would mean game, set, and match to Transport for London. You need to submit something. Hopefully by the time TfL reply, we'll know about the judicial review.

I see, could you point me in the right direction regarding submitting a defence or should I just explain what happened to them?
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Re: TFL - Bromley Road 46: Stopped where prohibited
« Reply #5 on: »
Quote from: Aubama on November 08, 2023, 06:24:59 pm
Quote from: Incandescent on November 07, 2023, 10:39:13 am
No, because you could miss the deadline for submitting reps, (or paying, of course). That would mean game, set, and match to Transport for London. You need to submit something. Hopefully by the time TfL reply, we'll know about the judicial review.

I see, could you point me in the right direction regarding submitting a defence or should I just explain what happened to them?
Basically, you submit a "holding" representation. This will essentially be around what you have told us about the circumstances, and omitting mention of the CCTV issue (the judicial review). If the JR decides London Tribunals are correct during the time by which they inevitably reject your reps, you can take them to London Tribunals. If the JR goes against London Tribunals, you will probably be in for the discount.
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Re: TFL - Bromley Road 46: Stopped where prohibited
« Reply #6 on: »
The Traffic Signs Manual, Chapter 3, Paragraph 16.1.4 states: “All upright signs should face oncoming traffic as drivers need to be able to read them without stopping, otherwise they might be committing an offence.” Does this apply to parking bay signage as the one in the GSV does not face oncoming traffic, rather it is parallel to it?
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Re: TFL - Bromley Road 46: Stopped where prohibited
« Reply #7 on: »

From the regs:

Particulars to be included in a regulation 10 penalty charge notice [which is what you have]

3.—(1) The information to be included in a regulation 10 penalty charge notice is—

(a)the date of the notice, which must be the date on which it is posted,


The Date of Notice is 29 October 2023 which was a Sunday. OP, IMO your reps could be as simple as 'I note the Date of this notice' is given as 29 October.
This was a Sunday.
The regulations require that the date of the notice '..must be the date on which it is posted'. TfL must prove that the PCN was so posted failing which it must be cancelled.

Wait for other views.
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Re: TFL - Bromley Road 46: Stopped where prohibited
« Reply #8 on: »
Go with H C Andersen's suggestion, this really is open and shut.

I have an FOI from TfL saying they only post notices Monday to Friday and this has won before, see Cristina Cornea v Transport for London (2230309290, 24 July 2023).
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: TFL - Bromley Road 46: Stopped where prohibited
« Reply #9 on: »
Hi, so my response will simply be:

Dear sirs,

I note the Date of this notice' is given as 29 October, which is a Sunday.

The regulations require that the date of the notice must be the date on which it is posted.

Regards,
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Re: TFL - Bromley Road 46: Stopped where prohibited
« Reply #10 on: »
Is the above ok to submit?
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Re: TFL - Bromley Road 46: Stopped where prohibited
« Reply #11 on: »
Quote from: Aubama on November 23, 2023, 09:56:04 am
Is the above ok to submit?
@Aubama yes, and hurry up, you're almost out of time.

Submit the representations online at https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/challenge-a-pcn and keep a screenshot of the confirmation page.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: TFL - Bromley Road 46: Stopped where prohibited
« Reply #12 on: »
Hi, I have received a rejection letter..please can I get advice on what to do next.  Thanks






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Re: TFL - Bromley Road 46: Stopped where prohibited
« Reply #13 on: »
They have not dealt at all with the basis of your reps, namely the PCN date is on a Sunday so cannot have been sent in accordance with the regulations, they merely note it. Where the regulations say "must", it is a mandatory requirement and hence a procedural impropriety under the TMA 2003
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Re: TFL - Bromley Road 46: Stopped where prohibited
« Reply #14 on: »
You can appeal to London Tribunals on the PCN date issue. Alternatively, you can pay the £80. If you go to London Tribunals the full PCN penalty is in play. I cannot see you losing though, because by assuming that the PCN date is the date of its posting means the period to pay or appeal is based on this date. So they are robbing you of a day, basically. For me this is a serious procedural impropriety
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