3. TFL Box junction but I was moving! Battersea Bridge Road/ Battersea church road
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TFL Box junction but I was moving! Battersea Bridge Road/ Battersea church road
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Hi experts!

I've been hit with a PCN for contravention 31: entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited, however I was moving as I was turning left! There is no footage to suggest that I stopped in the junction - The timing of the images show that the car is continuously moving. The picture also doesn't show that there is standstill traffic ahead of the car infront of me - whenever I turn here, I ensure the traffic is moving so that there is enough space for me to avoid the junction. I've been using this junction for over 10 years and have never had a problem before.

Furthermore, there are at least three cars that have clearly stopped in the box junction but it looks like their number plates were blocked each other, and the camera couldn't capture them. It only got mine as I was turning left and moving so it was visible. I find this unfair as I didn't stop and the other cars clearly have stopped but their number plates aren't visible.

I am keen to make a representation - do I need to request video footage to show I was moving? Any expert advice on this would be hugely appreciated.

All info you might need is below.
Thanks

PCN: GX09553231

GSV: https://goo.gl/maps/J46QHJARE4YSiU3R9

PCN Images:
https://ibb.co/XZsqhHJ
https://ibb.co/h74RTDf
https://ibb.co/4spkShQ
https://ibb.co/xGY7KTH
« Last Edit: September 08, 2023, 11:11:45 pm by cp8759 »
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Re: TFL Box junction but I was moving! Battersea Bridge Road/ Battersea church road
« Reply #1 on: »
Only the video footage will be able to confirm our contradict your recollection of events.  Annoyingly this isn't made automatically available and you have to call TFL to request it.  Do this asap and check they are putting the discount on hold while it is sent to you on DVD.

Once you have it, upload somewhere publicly available and post up a link for us to check.
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Re: TFL Box junction but I was moving! Battersea Bridge Road/ Battersea church road
« Reply #2 on: »
Do they still use DVD?! Surely they can provide me with a link via email which i can then share here? Any idea who I should email, what to say and how to get confirmation the discount is on hold?
Thanks.
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Re: TFL Box junction but I was moving! Battersea Bridge Road/ Battersea church road
« Reply #3 on: »
No email link I'm afraid, you need to call them (I think the number is 0343 222 3333).  Simply give them your PCN reference number and say you'd like to see the video evidence.  They'll offer to post you the DVD.  I believe their process is to automatically put the discount on hold for a couple of weeks but I'd suggest getting verbal confirmation of this when you speak to them.
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Re: TFL Box junction but I was moving! Battersea Bridge Road/ Battersea church road
« Reply #4 on: »
What a nuisance! Do any of the other points I raised have any weight in my case? The pictures showing the car has moved within seconds, the other cars who were stationary but number plates blocked  so got away etc?
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Re: TFL Box junction but I was moving! Battersea Bridge Road/ Battersea church road
« Reply #5 on: »
Get hold of the video and written confirmation they will put the matter on hold. We can only verify your account when we see the video.  If you call them, record it.
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IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r
Re: TFL Box junction but I was moving! Battersea Bridge Road/ Battersea church road
« Reply #6 on: »
Quote from: troolykool on September 02, 2023, 11:00:54 am
What a nuisance! Do any of the other points I raised have any weight in my case? The pictures showing the car has moved within seconds, the other cars who were stationary but number plates blocked  so got away etc?

To be blunt, no.  Short of a procedural blunder by TFL, the video is the sole evidence that will determine your fate.
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Re: TFL Box junction but I was moving! Battersea Bridge Road/ Battersea church road
« Reply #7 on: »
Both back wheels were in the box and didn’t move for a number of seconds ( one is enough to contravene ) as each photo is timed. It is a bit of a miserable Pcn but not wrong in law. I think you would lose at the tribunal unless TfL decided for an unknown reason not to contest or made a blunder in their evidence.
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I help you pro bono (for free). I now ask that a £40 donation is made to the North London Hospice before I take over your case. I have an 85% success rate across 2,000 PCNs but some PCNs can't be beaten and I will tell you if your case looks hopeless before asking you to donate.
Re: TFL Box junction but I was moving! Battersea Bridge Road/ Battersea church road
« Reply #8 on: »
Ok, so do you think it’s not worth pursuing with video evidence given the pictures ? If I do get the video evidence and make a rep and don’t win, will the discount be lost?

The fact that it’s only very slightly part of my back wheel and that this has never happened before in last 10 years I’ve lived there won’t count?
« Last Edit: September 03, 2023, 11:39:58 am by troolykool »
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Re: TFL Box junction but I was moving! Battersea Bridge Road/ Battersea church road
« Reply #9 on: »
It's always worth getting the video as, even if you are shown to stop in the junction, various other elements need to be present in the footage to prove the contravention.  Eg the video has to show you entering (you'd be surprised how often it doesn't).  Even if you do stop within the box, the video has to show this was due to a stationary vehicle blocking you in etc
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Re: TFL Box junction but I was moving! Battersea Bridge Road/ Battersea church road
« Reply #10 on: »
I just spoke to TFL to request the video footage. They said they have put through a request for the footage to be posted to me but when I asked for confirmation that the case could be put on hold until I receive the DVD, they said it is not in their policy to do that and they wouldn't, nor could they confirm how long it would take for the DVD to arrive.They said if you don't make a rep before the date specified, the fee will just increase - I explained I needed the evidence but they said there's nothing they can do. Any advice? Or just sit and hope the DVD arrives quickly!?
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Re: TFL Box junction but I was moving! Battersea Bridge Road/ Battersea church road
« Reply #11 on: »
The 2003 Act under which the PCN was issued does not require the video evidence to be provided before you reach the tribunal.

If in doubt, assuming you wish to contest the PCN, make a representation that the alleged contravention did not occur but that you have been obliged to make this representation without having seen the cctv because TfL could not tell you when they would send it.

The discount will probably be offered if your representation is rejected but does not have to be.
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I help you pro bono (for free). I now ask that a £40 donation is made to the North London Hospice before I take over your case. I have an 85% success rate across 2,000 PCNs but some PCNs can't be beaten and I will tell you if your case looks hopeless before asking you to donate.
Re: TFL Box junction but I was moving! Battersea Bridge Road/ Battersea church road
« Reply #12 on: »
Ok, thank you. I will make a representation making the following points:
- I was turning left and only turned when I saw the traffic ahead of me was moving and would allow me to cross through the box junction. The car infront of me was moving into the space in front and I was following the flow of traffic. If the car ahead of me had been quicker in moving into the space infront of it then the flow of traffic would have been quicker and my back wheels wouldn't have been captured on the box even though I was moving.
- I have requested video evidence to show I was moving but TFL can not confirm when I will receive this so am having to make the representation without it to avoid the charge increasing.
- I have lived here for over ten years and regularly use this junction - I have never had this problem before.
- Other cars are clearly stationary in the box but their registration plates are not visible. It is unfortunate that I have penalised due to my registration being visible, despite my car being on the move.


Are there any points I should drop, rewrite or add? Thank you.
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Re: TFL Box junction but I was moving! Battersea Bridge Road/ Battersea church road
« Reply #13 on: »
Too long, don't admit to anything. Just copy what i said starting from 'the alleged' to 'send it'
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I help you pro bono (for free). I now ask that a £40 donation is made to the North London Hospice before I take over your case. I have an 85% success rate across 2,000 PCNs but some PCNs can't be beaten and I will tell you if your case looks hopeless before asking you to donate.
Re: TFL Box junction but I was moving! Battersea Bridge Road/ Battersea church road
« Reply #14 on: »
Ok, but will that not just result in them rejecting my rep in favour of their images?
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  3. TFL Box junction but I was moving! Battersea Bridge Road/ Battersea church road