Author Topic: TfL, Being in a Bus Lane, Camden Road SW-BND FROM CAMDEN STREET  (Read 3534 times)

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Re: TfL, Being in a Bus Lane, Camden Road SW-BND FROM CAMDEN STREET
« Reply #15 on: »
@henryjago  I believe there is another page where at the top they state that the Enforcement Notice is a PCN?  If so, please show the page and stick that argument in too.
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Re: TfL, Being in a Bus Lane, Camden Road SW-BND FROM CAMDEN STREET
« Reply #16 on: »
@henryjago  I believe there is another page where at the top they state that the Enforcement Notice is a PCN?  If so, please show the page and stick that argument in too.

Thanks @Hippocrates. This is at the top of the second page of the EN. I can include a further para in the representation that says "The notes on Page 2 of the Enforcement Notice incorrectly refers to the Notice as a Penalty Charge Notice and is both misleading and confusing".

Is this what you had in mind?




Re: TfL, Being in a Bus Lane, Camden Road SW-BND FROM CAMDEN STREET
« Reply #17 on: »
Yes. Write they have misidentified the En with the PCN.
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Re: TfL, Being in a Bus Lane, Camden Road SW-BND FROM CAMDEN STREET
« Reply #18 on: »
Thanks - the formal representation is ready to go and I'll send through the post (tracked) tomorrow. Final version below (without images as they are included earlier in the thread). I will get back in touch @Hippocrates when the letter of rejection arrives - in the meantime, do let me know if you need anything ahead of the Tribunal stage. Thanks again for your help to date.




Formal Representation against Enforcement Notice (Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) GX2209961A)
I am writing to formally challenge the above Enforcement Notice regarding an alleged bus lane contravention for the reasons set out below.


1.  Inadequate advance warning of the bus lane. A blue sign in Camden Road just before Lyme Street is obscured by a Congestion Charge sign. Please see Image 1. I stood in the inside lane of the road to take this photo. There should be adequate advance warning of the presence of a bus lane.

2.   Confusing road markings at the junction with traffic lights at Camden Street. The inside lane becomes the bus lane immediately after the yellow box junction with traffic lights at Camden Street. The bus lane starts so close to the junction that the dotted white line of the bus lane meets the yellow line of the box junction – see Image 2. Therefore, motorists in the inside lane at the junction intending to drive straight on are not permitted to exit the junction in the same lane. However, the arrow marker on the road at the stop line indicates motorists may continue straight on – see Image 3 taken from Google Street, but doing so results in a fine. I believe there is a duty on TfL to ensure signs and road markings are clear and not misleading.

3.   No BUS LANE legend. At no point does the bus lane have the words “Bus Lane” written on the tarmac from its commencement at Camden Street to the end. Other bus lanes in the Camden area do.

4.   The notes on the Enforcement Notice incorrectly identify the Notice as a Penalty Charge Notice - see Image 4. This inaccuracy is misleading and confusing.

The PCN itself is unenforceable because:

5.   The reference to The Interpretation Act is irrelevant and confusing as the legislation pertaining to Bus Lane enforcement refers to actions which may be taken by the authority and/or appellant from the date of the Notice.

6.   The statement: "Any written correspondence before the issue of the Enforcement Notice will not be treated as a formal representation." fetters discretion and is contrary to the legislation in that it clearly implies that you will send an Enforcement Notice when the legislation states "may" at 4(3)(e)

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/1996/9/section/4/enacted

7.   The statement: "It will not entitle you to the right of appeal." is absurd and flies in the face of the law and natural justice. Additionally, the following statement about consideration seems to contradict what has been previously stated.

8.   The statement: "Failure to respond or contact us within 28 days of the service date of this notice will result in the Enforcement Notice automatically being sent to you after this period." similarly fetters discretion and mis-states the time period.

I therefore request the penalty be cancelled thereby avoiding further time and effort for both parties.

Yours sincerely,
 


Re: TfL, Being in a Bus Lane, Camden Road SW-BND FROM CAMDEN STREET
« Reply #19 on: »
Quote
I'll send through the post (tracked) tomorrow.

Normally, post 1st Class at any post office counter and obtain proof of posting is advised. The law the defines it as served 2 days later. Signed for post to large organisations is not reliable.

Re: TfL, Being in a Bus Lane, Camden Road SW-BND FROM CAMDEN STREET
« Reply #20 on: »
Quote
I'll send through the post (tracked) tomorrow.

Normally, post 1st Class at any post office counter and obtain proof of posting is advised. The law the defines it as served 2 days later. Signed for post to large organisations is not reliable.

Thanks. I have gone for Special Delivery Guaranteed by 1pm. Do you think that should be okay?


Re: TfL, Being in a Bus Lane, Camden Road SW-BND FROM CAMDEN STREET
« Reply #21 on: »
Quote
I'll send through the post (tracked) tomorrow.

Normally, post 1st Class at any post office counter and obtain proof of posting is advised. The law the defines it as served 2 days later. Signed for post to large organisations is not reliable.

Thanks. I have gone for Special Delivery Guaranteed by 1pm. Do you think that should be okay?


As long as the certificate carries the destination address and you can print off the completed tracking record I don't see why not.

Re: TfL, Being in a Bus Lane, Camden Road SW-BND FROM CAMDEN STREET
« Reply #22 on: »
It does indeed - many thanks.

Re: TfL, Being in a Bus Lane, Camden Road SW-BND FROM CAMDEN STREET
« Reply #23 on: »
Hi @Hippocrates and @cp8759.

I still have not heard back from TfL on this. They received my formal representation on 28th March and it still seems to be on hold. Is it usual to wait this long before hearing from them?


Re: TfL, Being in a Bus Lane, Camden Road SW-BND FROM CAMDEN STREET
« Reply #24 on: »
They are in a bit of a quandary at present I believe. Just be patient.
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Re: TfL, Being in a Bus Lane, Camden Road SW-BND FROM CAMDEN STREET
« Reply #25 on: »
Hi @Hippocrates and @cp8759.

I still have not heard back from TfL on this. They received my formal representation on 28th March and it still seems to be on hold. Is it usual to wait this long before hearing from them?
Yes, even in parking they're allowed up to 56 days to respond, in non-parking cases London authorities have no statutory time limit although the tribunal will usually say that if they take over three months, that's unfair and impermissible at common law.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: TfL, Being in a Bus Lane, Camden Road SW-BND FROM CAMDEN STREET
« Reply #26 on: »
Thanks both.

Re: TfL, Being in a Bus Lane, Camden Road SW-BND FROM CAMDEN STREET
« Reply #27 on: »
Hi, did TFL drop this? I've got the same ticket.

Re: TfL, Being in a Bus Lane, Camden Road SW-BND FROM CAMDEN STREET
« Reply #28 on: »
I appealed the Enforcement Notice which TfL received on the 28th March. It's been on hold since then.

Re: TfL, Being in a Bus Lane, Camden Road SW-BND FROM CAMDEN STREET
« Reply #29 on: »
Hello @cp8759 and @Hippocrates.

Hadn't heard a dickie bird about this for months, so just checked the PCN status. TfL cancelled the PCN last Friday! I have not received notification by post, or by email so have no idea why. Not that I am overly concerned about the reason, but it would be interesting. Obviously a good outcome for me, but I do wonder if they'd left it so long, they knew they'd have a hard time explaining the delay at Tribunal? Any ideas/thoughts?

« Last Edit: July 15, 2025, 08:52:16 pm by henryjago »