3. TfL / 52g / Rotherhithe Tunnel 2t Weight Limit / Branch Road
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Re: TfL / 52g / Rotherhithe Tunnel 2t Weight Limit / Branch Road
« Reply #15 on: »
Thanks @H C Andersen — that’s helpful context. Yet the signage itself does not state that the 2t refers to Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW). It simply shows a goods vehicle icon with “2t”, which could reasonably be interpreted by a driver as Unladen weight. Considering my van had the partition wall removed, I reasonably assumed it's approximately 2t.

@Pastmybest: where do I find cp5789?
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Re: TfL / 52g / Rotherhithe Tunnel 2t Weight Limit / Branch Road
« Reply #16 on: »
Quote from: BertieBath on May 25, 2025, 06:53:43 pm
Hi all,

I’ve received a TfL PCN for allegedly breaching the 2-tonne unladen weight restriction in the Rotherhithe Tunnel, while driving a 2008 VW Crafter (SWB) during rush hour.

Key Points:

    • My vehicle’s unladen weight is approx. 2,030 kg — just over the limit, but I was genuinely unaware at the time. I was driving alone, with no passengers or cargo...

You weren't just over the weight limit, you were well over it, weren't you?

The 2 tonne limit refers to Gross Vehicle Weight or "permissible maximum weight" and not to unladen weight.

If you challenge the ticket on signage grounds it might be best not to claim you were just over the limit.
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Re: TfL / 52g / Rotherhithe Tunnel 2t Weight Limit / Branch Road
« Reply #17 on: »
That misunderstanding is actually part of the problem: the signage doesn’t specify “GVW”.

Also worth pointing out: older TfL signage for the Rotherhithe Tunnel did clearly state “GVW” — see this official TfL press image:
🔗 https://tfl-newsroom.prgloo.com/resources/various-restrictions-in-place-at-rotherhithe-tunnel-pn120

So TfL previously used signage that clarified the restriction as applying to Gross Vehicle Weight. The current version omits this completely — a regression in clarity and compliance, which surely raises questions about whether it meets the legal standard of “adequate information” under LATOR Regulation 18.

On another note, the PCN description reads (sic):

“Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicle goods vehicles exceeding max gross weight indicated”

This sentence is grammatically and syntactically defective — there’s no punctuation or clause break between “certain types of vehicle” and “goods vehicles exceeding max gross weight”.

Moreover, it refers to “max gross weight indicated”, yet the current sign doesn’t actually indicate GVW.

Could both the unclear PCN wording and the omission of “GVW” from the sign contribute to a challenge based on procedural impropriety and/or signage inadequacy?
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Re: TfL / 52g / Rotherhithe Tunnel 2t Weight Limit / Branch Road
« Reply #18 on: »
Why impose a vehicle weight of 2 tonnes for commercial vehicles as there are many cars that have a GVW in excess of 2 tonnes and are larger than small vans. It can't be for environmental reasons as 2t GVW is the weight limit at which car speed limits apply to commercial vehicles.

Environmental weight restrictions for vehicles of less than 7.5 tonnes are usually applied for structural reasons on roads that have weak structures such as bridges so, is there an environmental application to London's tunnels?.
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Re: TfL / 52g / Rotherhithe Tunnel 2t Weight Limit / Branch Road
« Reply #19 on: »
This is going off topic but it appears the goods vehicle weight limit relates to fire hazard.

https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transparency/freedom-of-information/foi-request-detail?referenceId=FOI-0176-2021
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Re: TfL / 52g / Rotherhithe Tunnel 2t Weight Limit / Branch Road
« Reply #20 on: »
OP, see page 17:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/656ef4271104cf0013fa74ef/know-your-traffic-signs-dft.pdf

'Know Your Traffic Signs' complements the Highway Code.

A driver is presumed to know, and therefore would be treated in law as knowing i.e. not knowing is not a defence.

There's no 'out' on this point, I'm afraid.
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Re: TfL / 52g / Rotherhithe Tunnel 2t Weight Limit / Branch Road
« Reply #21 on: »
I draw attention to the fact that the signage is not merely cluttered — it is compromised by design. Having checked again on maps the 2t restriction sign is visually obstructed by the infrastructure installed to enforce it (the advisory sign - which is not visible from the roundabout with live traffic). The central sign is covered by gantry poles, vehicle height warning equipment, and other road furniture. Drivers in both approach lanes face an obscured or peripheral view of this critical restriction. Unlike the 2.0m height limit, which is duplicated clearly on both sides and above, the 2t restriction is not repeated or given equal prominence. If a restriction is not fully visible and legible from all approach positions, it cannot be said to be adequately conveyed under Regulation 18 of the LATOR 1996.
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Re: TfL / 52g / Rotherhithe Tunnel 2t Weight Limit / Branch Road
« Reply #22 on: »
Quote from: BertieBath on May 29, 2025, 10:07:31 am
I draw attention to the fact that the signage is not merely cluttered — it is compromised by design. Having checked again on maps the 2t restriction sign is visually obstructed by the infrastructure installed to enforce it (the advisory sign - which is not visible from the roundabout with live traffic). The central sign is covered by gantry poles, vehicle height warning equipment, and other road furniture. Drivers in both approach lanes face an obscured or peripheral view of this critical restriction. Unlike the 2.0m height limit, which is duplicated clearly on both sides and above, the 2t restriction is not repeated or given equal prominence. If a restriction is not fully visible and legible from all approach positions, it cannot be said to be adequately conveyed under Regulation 18 of the LATOR 1996.
But are you going to take them to London Tribunals on this ?
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Re: TfL / 52g / Rotherhithe Tunnel 2t Weight Limit / Branch Road
« Reply #23 on: »
I appreciate the chances are slim and adjudicators have always sided with TFL on this. 'Adequacy' is open to interpretation and TFL have no obligation to improve the current signage.

I will first focus on the wording of PCN itself: I managed to be in touch with the great cp8759 and there are at least two avenues which are looking promising to get the PCN cancelled!
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Re: TfL / 52g / Rotherhithe Tunnel 2t Weight Limit / Branch Road
« Reply #24 on: »
...but not by TfL!

Have you requested the DVD because this is TfL's primary evidence and would carry most weight with adjudicators. The facts of your case, not hypothetical possibilities and aged GSV.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2025, 10:25:43 am by H C Andersen »
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Re: TfL / 52g / Rotherhithe Tunnel 2t Weight Limit / Branch Road
« Reply #25 on: »
Quote from: stamfordman on May 28, 2025, 03:17:09 pm
This is going off topic but it appears the goods vehicle weight limit relates to fire hazard.

https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transparency/freedom-of-information/foi-request-detail?referenceId=FOI-0176-2021

Thank you for the link. Every day's a learning day.

So, although the weight limit is not an arbitrary figure, most small van drivers  have no idea of their vehicle's GVW .

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Re: TfL / 52g / Rotherhithe Tunnel 2t Weight Limit / Branch Road
« Reply #26 on: »
Quote from: H C Andersen on May 29, 2025, 10:22:18 am

Have you requested the DVD because this is TfL's primary evidence and would carry most weight with adjudicators. The facts of your case, not hypothetical possibilities and aged GSV.

I haven't! I must admit I do not even know where to start :) I will have a look as to how request this. Can you clarify: by DVD you mean the footage (online) or the actual disc? And does that need to be requested to a specific department?
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Re: TfL / 52g / Rotherhithe Tunnel 2t Weight Limit / Branch Road
« Reply #27 on: »
Good evening — just sharing some good news!

TfL issued a Charge Certificate and increased the penalty earlier than legally permitted. I appealed, and the Enforcement Authority has informed the Tribunal it will not contest my appeal against the PCN.

Huge thanks to everyone who offered advice, and especially to @cp8759 (Ivan Murray-Smith) for helping me demonstrate that this PCN was simply wrong. Much appreciated!
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Re: TfL / 52g / Rotherhithe Tunnel 2t Weight Limit / Branch Road
« Reply #28 on: »
Quote from: baroudeur on May 28, 2025, 02:29:12 pm
Why impose a vehicle weight of 2 tonnes for commercial vehicles as there are many cars that have a GVW in excess of 2 tonnes and are larger than small vans.

That was my thought too.

Some EVs are even too heavy to be driven on an ordinary licence.
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  3. TfL / 52g / Rotherhithe Tunnel 2t Weight Limit / Branch Road