3. tfl
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tfl
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HELLO
I was parked on  210 stamford hill N16 6RA
to pick up my wife and children with shopping bags, when a police officer told me to move away as i was parked the oposit way from the traffic flow, which he told me that its illegal to do and he will give me a ticket if staying.
i said that i did not know that its illegal but i am moving away rithaway
as i turn away and put gear in drive mode i saw in the mirer that he is taking photos in the back.
i drove away hopping for the best, but you guess .. i got a ticket in the post.
however only 1 photo was taken.

please advice

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Re: tfl
« Reply #1 on: »
It would have been a PCSO.  There is an issue with uniform and badges for PCSOs undertaking enforcement for TfL.
Our administrator, CP8759, will no doubt explain further.

Here is the sign : -
https://goo.gl/maps/2UGhBhFFZP9h3FZu9
Were you engaged in boarding your passengers at the time or just waiting for them to arrive ? Loading shopping is not considered to be "loading".

The PCN has been served by post because you drove off before it could be served to you or the car.

Another point to make is that the location is far too vague for a postal PCN. However, if you want to fight this PCN, is it likely you'd have to take them to London Tribunals.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2023, 12:04:09 am by cp8759 »
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Re: tfl
« Reply #2 on: »
AS far as I can see (PCN dated 23rd August) you are out of time for the discount, so you may as well make reps (as long as you keep to deadlines).
Please post the remaining pages of the PCN and the TfL photo(s).
You should redact your name and address from the PCN.
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Re: tfl
« Reply #3 on: »
Quote from: Incandescent on September 12, 2023, 05:54:25 pm
Loading shopping is not considered to be "loading".
It can be if the shopping was pre-ordered or, more likely in this case, if it was the passenger's luggage.

@momo please confirm the exact sequence of events, in any case we can appeal on the known uniform issue but if we can use more than one ground of appeal that would be best.

TFL photos:





Also re-post the PCN with your postal address redacted, and without covering the photos section.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: tfl
« Reply #4 on: »
Thank you so much for your support
attached is full pcn.

my wife asked me to pick up herself and my 2 children with her shopping , as i arrived police officers passed by foot and told me to move away, otherwise i will get a ticket . i did so right away, but they still issued me a ticket in back of my neck!

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Re: tfl
« Reply #5 on: »
OK so we have plenty to go on, just one thing before I draft a representation: how much shopping are we talking about? give us an description of how many bags, how heavy, what the shopping actually was etc.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: tfl
« Reply #6 on: »
thank you so much!
it was like a couple of bulky bags with winter jackets etc.
the children are 12 and 8.
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Re: tfl
« Reply #7 on: »
Sorry so did your wife actually get into the car? If you could give us the full sequence of events it would make things much quicker, otherwise we have to keep asking questions to fill in the gaps.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: tfl
« Reply #8 on: »
my wife asked me to pick up herself and my 2 children ( aged 8 & 12 ) with her shopping , as i arrived police officers passed by foot and told me to move away, otherwise i will get a ticket . i did so right away, but they still issued me a ticket in back of my neck!
my wife came out from the shop 2 minutes later and had to come across the street to Northfield road where i waited for them, schlepping bulky bags with winter jackets,
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Re: tfl
« Reply #9 on: »
Draft reps:

Dear Transport for London,

I challenge liability for PCN GF83677088 because the alleged contravention did not occur. I was picking up my wife who had purchased some heavy and bulky shopping, and was accompanied by our two children aged 8 and 12. As this is a loading bay, I understood I could stop in order to load my wife's shopping into the car.

I had barely stopped when two police community officers directed me to move and warned me that if I didn't I would be given a fine, so I moved off as instructed and parked on the other side of the road.

My wife then came out of the shop 2 minutes later and had to come across the street to Northfield road where I was waiting for her.

It was the police community support officer who directed me to move, if he had told me to wait for him to print a penalty charge notice I would have waited. I would suggest that for officers to direct me to leave and then issue a postal PCN on the grounds that I drove off amounts to a procedural impropriety, on the basis of which the penalty charge must be cancelled in any event.

Yours faithfully,

Send this via the TFL website and make sure to keep a screenshot of the confirmation screen.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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  3. tfl