Author Topic: Swale , code 01 William Street SBS - double yellow lines  (Read 1121 times)

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Swale , code 01 William Street SBS - double yellow lines
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Good afternoon,

Misuss parked the car in our street on double yellow in front of a dropped curb and garage.
We have permission from the owner to park in front of the garage.



09/12/23
Wife had to come back to feed our 5-month-old as was in a state of distress, as per usual no parking spaces in the street or near our house at this time of the night (as the permits are not required after 6pm)

CEO comes round (way after 6pm)  @ 20:45 goes around the block twice in his car and slaps the ticket on at 20.51.


Location
https://maps.app.goo.gl/TNM2zK2X9VL65B237

PCN Photos
https://pcn.swale.gov.uk/  GV68 WRX - KL01906797







Let me know what grounds there are to make an informal appeal, any input is much appreciated as always
« Last Edit: June 26, 2024, 07:36:33 pm by cp8759 »

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Re: Swale , code 01 William Street SBS - double yellow lines
« Reply #1 on: »
Unfortunately there are no grounds whatever in terms of the contravention itself, the car was on the double-yellow lines, no ifs or buts. Your only argument as far as I can see from your narrative is mitigation based on your wife returning to feed the infant. However the car was still there way after that when the CEAO came round, so you'd have to explain that away somehow. Yes, parking in narrow streets with no off-street parking can be a pain in the ass. You really want the double-yellows removing and if the garage gets blocked, you could request the council ticket that vehicle for blocking a dropped kerb. Councils should only ticket cars that the driveway owner complains about.

At the moment, the only permission your neighbour can give is to allow you to park on the concrete approach, but not the pavement, because the double-yellow lines apply to that as well. I suspect your car won't fit into that space.

Re: Swale , code 01 William Street SBS - double yellow lines
« Reply #2 on: »
Most of the penalties that we got in the past for cancelled as soon as we mentioned the mandatory information.
They would simply ignore it in the appeal and then PCN got cancelled.

Would it be worth a try once again?

-----------------------


The PCN is missing mandatory information as follows:

Information to be included in regulation 9 penalty charge notices and enforcement notices

3.—(1) A regulation 9 penalty charge notice must include the following information—

(a)that a person on whom a notice to owner is served may, in accordance with these Regulations, make representations to the enforcement authority against the penalty charge and, if those representations are rejected, appeal to an adjudicator;

(b)that if, before a notice to owner is served, representations against the penalty charge are received at such address as may be specified in the notice for the purpose those representations will be considered by the enforcement authority;

©that if a notice to owner is served despite the representations mentioned in sub-paragraph (b), representations against the penalty charge must be made to the enforcement authority in the form and manner and at the time specified in the notice to owner.

3(1) is there, but I cannot see 3(2) and 3(3).

This is a procedural impropriety and a winning, albeit technical, argument and grounds by itself.

Re: Swale , code 01 William Street SBS - double yellow lines
« Reply #3 on: »
You have yet to post the PCN, so obviously we have not been able to comment on it. So before you fold and pay-up, let us see it.

Re: Swale , code 01 William Street SBS - double yellow lines
« Reply #4 on: »
I am sorry here we go:



« Last Edit: June 26, 2024, 07:37:12 pm by cp8759 »

Re: Swale , code 01 William Street SBS - double yellow lines
« Reply #5 on: »
Yes, you are right, the PCN is flawed as it omits this: -
Quote
©that if a notice to owner is served despite the representations mentioned in sub-paragraph (b), representations against the penalty charge must be made to the enforcement authority in the form and manner and at the time specified in the notice to owner.
This is a very important piece of information, because it advises the appellant that if he has submitted representations, and an NtO turns up without him getting a reply to his reps, that he must submit those reps again against the Notice to Owner. People have, in the past, received an NtO, and have ignored it because they think they have already submitted representations.

Having said all this, will an adjudicator accept this is a major error in the PCN and therefore a procedurual improproriety ? He should do because the information is mandatory and is nowhere on your PCN.

Don't expect the council to give way, as most of their staff are entirely ignorant of the law they purport to enforce, and rely on "computer says no/yes" !

Re: Swale , code 01 William Street SBS - double yellow lines
« Reply #6 on: »
Thanks,

The best thing to do is make informal reps now still on mitigating grounds and request discretion from the council to cancel the PCN?

Most likely they will decline and then mention this flaw on the PCN or make informal reps on both grounds right away?

 

Re: Swale , code 01 William Street SBS - double yellow lines
« Reply #7 on: »
You need to include the procedural impropriety now as well. If this goes to the TPT, this will be a major factor.

Last year I helped a lady in Kent who parked, did not raise the issue of P.I. and was extremely lucky to have got off the PCN.  In that case, only mitigation was put forward as a defence.  So, the moral of the story is to put everything in form the start.  And they must consider an allegation of P.I.
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Re: Swale , code 01 William Street SBS - double yellow lines
« Reply #8 on: »
As expected the informal appeal was rejected and didn't address the procedural impropriety.

Guess waiting for the NTO to make a formal challenge




Re: Swale , code 01 William Street SBS - double yellow lines
« Reply #9 on: »
Yes indeed.  I am sure that Schofeldt or I will deal with this one for you.  :D
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Re: Swale , code 01 William Street SBS - double yellow lines
« Reply #10 on: »
Just pulled this CC out of the post after a few days away from home.
Never received a NTO regarding this matter.

I take it wait till the charge is registered and go from there to get it back to NTO ?

Many thanks for your input.

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Re: Swale , code 01 William Street SBS - double yellow lines
« Reply #11 on: »
Just pulled this CC out of the post after a few days away from home.
Never received a NTO regarding this matter.

I take it wait till the charge is registered and go from there to get it back to NTO ?
Yes, don't wait for the Order for Recovery to come in the post, call the traffic enforcement centre on Tuesday to check if the debt has been registered and if not, repeat once every 10 days until it is.

Once it's registered you can fill in form TE9 https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1094491/Parking_TE9.pdf (no need to print as they accept a typed signature) and email it to tec@justice.gov.uk

Don't forget the applicant is the council, not you, and put the PCN number in the email's subject line.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: Swale , code 01 William Street SBS - double yellow lines
« Reply #12 on: »
Trigger-happy Stewards of the Bar.
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Re: Swale , code 01 William Street SBS - double yellow lines
« Reply #13 on: »
Case has been reset to NTO and received full pack of documents

Take it make an appeal again that the PCN wording is not complying and ignored during the informal stage?

Many thanks for your input

https://ibb.co/BnLCP8c
https://ibb.co/yFCfzQx
https://ibb.co/x841HWV


Full NTO : https://jmp.sh/s/sna1DUOkdUCXBv3lnU3i

Re: Swale , code 01 William Street SBS - double yellow lines
« Reply #14 on: »
09/12/23
Wife had to come back to feed our 5-month-old as was in a state of distress

Let's start with the basic facts, why was she in a state of distress?
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order