3. Suspended Bay Penalty
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Re: Suspended Bay Penalty
« Reply #15 on: »
here's the wrongbaysuspended pic: https://1drv.ms/i/s!AhaoZsGtfKSPkIpzZUEXW2ugbz25Mw?e=d8Aid7

should be an open link, please let me know if not..

I could host the whole thing on Sharepoint Online and give them a specific account to access, then that access will be audited, do you think that works? Or we could use your method with the click-tracker, perhaps that removes the risk of them saying, "the account did not work" or some other excuse.
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Re: Suspended Bay Penalty
« Reply #16 on: »
You can't require them to go and create and account or log into something or anything like that, I think that would be a stretch too far. What you want is a link that they can just click on and access the image, and you want to be able to audit whether they've clicked on that link. If you know how to do that yourself then great, if not let me know and I can set it up for you.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Suspended Bay Penalty
« Reply #17 on: »
They don't need a account, I have configured for anon access via link, it will log access date as by 'guest', so that should do it. If they don't access it then it'll have no audit trail.

What do you think of my appeal wording?
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Re: Suspended Bay Penalty
« Reply #18 on: »
Yes the appeal wording looks fine, and as long as you can prove they haven't clicked on the link I suspect you'll win on the failure to consider.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Suspended Bay Penalty
« Reply #19 on: »
OK great, thank you. What we get is a viewers count and trail (an external is shown as 'guest'), if never viewed then this is empty, so can be proven either way. As per this screenshot... I'll go ahead and raise the appeal and report back when I hear something.

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« Last Edit: September 19, 2023, 08:37:52 am by squicker »
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Re: Suspended Bay Penalty
« Reply #20 on: »
Got a rejection while away. They say they tried to access the links but were removed, I just checked them and that's not the case, they are accessible. I guess they know that's my word against theirs', so is a way for them to not look at the evidence, however I did attach 3 pics in the measly 3 pic allowance, so they must have seen those. It is also feasible they were blocked by their own proxy or other filtering function, so received some sort of error. I think providing links is perhaps too fallible, many orgs block downloads from external repositories, and councils are terribly backwards in terms of technical thinking.

Anyway, rejection note is here: https://1drv.ms/f/s!AhaoZsGtfKSPkJcvdNgTzOS1ym1yzA?e=brfZGz

My concern is they still keep using their own small number of rather select pictures which do not show the sign on my parking bay, showing a restriction in the past, but instead keep showing the restriction photo from 4 bays away, which is valid, but very few people will check when they've seen their own bay is restricted for a date in the past.

Would be great to get some guidance on how to appeal this to TPT, in terms of wording, pictures etc.
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Re: Suspended Bay Penalty
« Reply #21 on: »
Quote from: squicker on October 15, 2023, 09:35:04 am
Got a rejection while away. They say they tried to access the links but were removed, I just checked them and that's not the case, they are accessible. I guess they know that's my word against theirs', so is a way for them to not look at the evidence, however I did attach 3 pics in the measly 3 pic allowance, so they must have seen those. It is also feasible they were blocked by their own proxy or other filtering function, so received some sort of error. I think providing links is perhaps too fallible, many orgs block downloads from external repositories, and councils are terribly backwards in terms of technical thinking.
I disagree, local authorities tell motorists to go onto various online portals to see evidence of contraventions, I don't see why we shouldn't do the same. If they have technical difficulties, it's for them to go figure it out.

If they couldn't have access the links they should have asked you to re-send the information by alternative means. To draw a parallel, if you'd sent something in the post and the ink had faded or smudge, the reasonable course of action would have been to ask you for a further copy rather than to throw the unreadle evidence in the bin.

If they want to maintain that the evidence had been removed, I'd want the council to provide screenshot evidence of that. If it turns out their own firewall blocked access, that's an issue internal to the council (they could have asked their IT department to whitelist the links,  or to just download the evidence themselves and email it to the relevant department).

As they've not reoffered the discount it's a no brainer to carry on. I'm happy to represent you at the tribunal if you'd like.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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Re: Suspended Bay Penalty
« Reply #22 on: »
Ha, yes, I do agree, in a logical world that is, not sure that these people inhabit that logical world however ;)

A few things before I lodge with TPT:

1 - Should I mention in my appeal to TPT that they did not consider all the evidence? e.g., exactly as you say, if they had access issues then they should have raised that with me, because I have checked the links and they work etc. I can prove this as the links are working today and will be working when the tribunal convenes, and this seems to me a strong point, "they did not consider all evidence, which was made available and is still provably available", therefore toss it.
2 - Can I - as the driver - speak on the call at the tribunal?
3 - What's the significance of the wording point you raised (the PCN is defective, as it is missing the 'notwithstanding' clause)?

Links still working:

https://prettysplendid.sharepoint.com/:i:/s/ParkingFine/ESQ1tTi2q5VJtpqKlt85PQQBMCuwJ50QmQk7h9IjGlLFZA?e=UDA4d0
https://prettysplendid.sharepoint.com/:i:/s/ParkingFine/EdLtXWNj2U1Fg9vGJSLRWpkB9lWuDCEu2uqkQmI_o7eQ6w?e=5HdYQp
https://prettysplendid.sharepoint.com/:i:/s/ParkingFine/Ee2M9Pm1DCxHtu8s0OQuzRYBgrTXrFfHojUQpxOLzz1tqg?e=MjR3lt
https://prettysplendid.sharepoint.com/:i:/s/ParkingFine/Edjpde4LRjNPr6n9tQlA2MoBdZhWLgQNbfJ_YcaaeFpWDA?e=1T9mrL
https://prettysplendid.sharepoint.com/:i:/s/ParkingFine/Edjpde4LRjNPr6n9tQlA2MoBdZhWLgQNbfJ_YcaaeFpWDA?e=7kg7HO
https://prettysplendid.sharepoint.com/:i:/s/ParkingFine/EdLtXWNj2U1Fg9vGJSLRWpkB9lWuDCEu2uqkQmI_o7eQ6w?e=Rxrd3P
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Re: Suspended Bay Penalty
« Reply #23 on: »
Don't register appeal yet. If CP has offered to represent you, and you have accepted his offer (send him a PM) he will be in touch off-forum to arrange matters.
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Re: Suspended Bay Penalty
« Reply #24 on: »
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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Re: Suspended Bay Penalty
« Reply #25 on: »
Thank you to all for your guidance and support. A reasonable outcome where common sense prevails. Fine money goes to Cats Protection.

Happy Christmas and wishing a splendid 2024 to all.
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Re: Suspended Bay Penalty
« Reply #26 on: »
I hope Ms Gowland was suitably contrite ....
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Re: Suspended Bay Penalty
« Reply #27 on: »
Quote from: John U.K. on December 15, 2023, 07:33:39 pm
I hope Ms Gowland was suitably contrite ....
Her only comment when asked about the misleading sign was that she couldn't comment...

I've also noticed a pattern that when councils are told they've lost they just go mute, didn't even say bye before disconnecting. I always make a point of wishing the adjudicator a good day at the end of a hearing whether I win or lose, there's nothing to be gained by going off in a strop.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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  3. Suspended Bay Penalty