3. Stopped where prohibited on a red route.
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Torenaga

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Stopped where prohibited on a red route.
« on: February 07, 2024, 10:36:21 am »
Hi everyone.

My brother got another ticket outside work in the 1 hour red route box.
The pcso came past at 7.20 and took the time, my brother left at 7.25am to do a delivery then came back at 7.56am, not knowing the pcso had been to take the time. The pcso then came back at 8.40am and put the fine on the car. I can confirm the times as we have cctv pointing at the car.
Is there anything that can be done, I have posted the pcn and a still of the pcso who did the fine.
Also included is a google street view of the location.
Do the pcso's still use the valves of the tyres to see if there has been any movement to a car?

Kind regards

https://flic.kr/p/2pwVjfJ

https://flic.kr/p/2pwT4H2

https://maps.app.goo.gl/ceP289DkjZ1HfrtF8
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Torenaga

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Re: Stopped where prohibited on a red route.
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2024, 10:36:35 pm »
Hi guys, has anyone got any ideas what i could do as the discount will end tomorrow.

Kind regards
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Incandescent

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Re: Stopped where prohibited on a red route.
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2024, 11:12:11 pm »
I suggest you go through the time line on your reps, and then also state that the location is under continuus monitoring by CCTV, therefore the video recording will confirm the arrival and departure times at the bay described in the representations. However, the bay sign says no return within 2 hours, so it seems to me your brother was in contravention on the one hour restriction.
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H C Andersen

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Re: Stopped where prohibited on a red route.
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2024, 10:28:10 am »
Exactly.

OP, read the sign and apply it to the circumstances taking everything you've said as being correct.

A car is in contravention if during the restricted hours either of the following occurs:

Car is parked continuously for more than 1 hour; or
Car leaves and returns before a period of 2 hours has elapsed.

The contravention grounds in either case are the same.

Your evidence is that it was in contravention by virtue of returning within 2 hours.

I can't see you winning this one.
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Torenaga

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Re: Stopped where prohibited on a red route.
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2024, 03:03:04 pm »
Thank you both so much for the replies,
I will just write what i said on here and see what
they respond with.

Again, much appreciated for the help
👍
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Torenaga

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Re: Stopped where prohibited on a red route.
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2024, 03:30:39 pm »
Sorry, just one more question.
Does this template not work anymore for red route contraventions?

Dear Transport for London,

I challenge liability because the alleged contravention did not occur. My vehicle was parked in a designated parking place, so the contravention you allege could not have occurred. Should this matter proceed to the tribunal, I will require TFL to prove that it has complied with The Civil Enforcement Officers (Wearing of Uniforms) (England) Regulations 2007 and section 76(3) of the Traffic Management Act 2004.

Yours faithfully,

Kind regards
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Torenaga

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Re: Stopped where prohibited on a red route.
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2024, 11:38:10 pm »
I have gone to the tfl website to appeal the fine, but the discount period is up.
A huge miss on my behalf as I got sidetracked with work yesterday.
Is there a possibility that they could re offer the discount if I send the appeal in?
« Last Edit: February 10, 2024, 11:43:40 pm by Torenaga »
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Incandescent

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Re: Stopped where prohibited on a red route.
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2024, 12:50:27 am »
All you can do is try it. They would be idiots not to re-offer the discount, because if they don't, it is then a total no-brainer to take them to London Tribunals, as the penalty does not increase, and there are no additional costs.
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cp8759

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Re: Stopped where prohibited on a red route.
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2024, 11:50:52 pm »
@Torenaga that's not a PCSO in the photos in your link, but it doesn't matter. At present we can beat virtually any TFL PCN, see Lubavitch Synagogue v Transport for London (2230535074, 5 February 2024)
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Torenaga

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Re: Stopped where prohibited on a red route.
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2024, 09:06:30 am »
Thank you for the reply CP.
I sent off the appeal already and will just go from the rejection letter that they will unquestionably send back to me. Then I will go from there 👍
Also this was the bay that I measured in the past and the dimensions were wrong.

Kind regards
« Last Edit: February 13, 2024, 09:08:58 am by Torenaga »
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cp8759

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Re: Stopped where prohibited on a red route.
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2024, 11:12:51 pm »
@Torenaga please tag me in your reply when you post the notice of rejection on here.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Torenaga

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Re: Stopped where prohibited on a red route.
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2024, 03:28:42 pm »
Hi everyone,
So I recieved the rejection notice via email and no re offer of the discount from TFL. I waited to receive the NTO before I posted this up.

https://flic.kr/p/2pJfh3D
https://flic.kr/p/2pJeDfe
https://flic.kr/p/2pJeDkj
https://flic.kr/p/2pJcVfr
https://flic.kr/p/2pJeD6M
https://flic.kr/p/2pJcURF
https://flic.kr/p/2pJeDeT
https://flic.kr/p/2pJfgU2

@cp8759 tagging you in to this post as requested 👍

Kind regards

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cp8759

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Re: Stopped where prohibited on a red route.
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2024, 11:06:05 pm »
@Torenaga just repeat the same representation again and let us know when you get the notice of rejection.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Torenaga

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Re: Stopped where prohibited on a red route.
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2024, 12:11:30 am »
Thank you CP,
I will do that.
Kind regards
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Torenaga

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Re: Stopped where prohibited on a red route.
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2024, 11:21:43 am »
Hi @cp8759.
My brother recieved the NTO with the right to appeal letter which I need to send off today as my brother was late giving it to me.
Shall i just repeat the same as before?
Is this still the same process or have things changed?
Kind regards

https://flic.kr/p/2pUmXXM
https://flic.kr/p/2pUkRAi
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