Free Traffic Legal Advice

Hi all, I need some advice and whether it is worth making a N244 application. [ENGLAND]

BACKGROUND:

I do Vehicle rentals and am not liable for any penalty charge notices. Anytime I appeal a PCN, I am successful in transferring it.

In this instance, I had bailiffs at my door for a PCN I was unaware of. We paid the fee (around £700) and straight away went to the Traffic Enforcement Centre to file a Statutory Declaration and an out of time declaration.

In the out of time application I wrote "We never received a Statutory Declaration form or any court documents from TfL or the Court, so we had no opportunity to submit our appeal within the normal timeframe. We only discovered the warrant when enforcement agents arrived, at which point it was too late to file. Therefore, we respectfully request permission to submit our statutory declaration out of time".

I just received a rejection letter with the reason: No explanation why the statutory declaration served late.

I feel like I explained it pretty well as a litigant in person? Is it worth appealing with a N244 application and any informal advice in where I went wrong?

You received a copy of the authority's objection, yes? What did it state?

Hi H C Andersen,
Thank you for the quick response. We did not receive a copy of the authority's objection. When I called DCBL they had let us know the money is on hold until the outcome of the statutory declaration, and the only letter we received was the one below:



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What council is this, please ?
 
There are two forms to submit for an OOT, the declaration itself, plus the form requesting permission to submit out-of-time. The key form is the one asking for permission, and the reason for late submission must go in there. So please tell us what you put in each form. It's always best to take advice before submitting an OOT declaration, because the council can object to it, and invariably do so.

Hi Incandescent,

Apologies for not taking advice prior to submitting the OOT declaration. This is the Congestion Charge with Transport for London.

Here is the OOT that was rejected alongside the declaration. It was the OOT that was rejected, and we clearly said as to why we did not submit on time; it is basically impossible to do so.


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So you got the charge certificate but not the PCN or order for recovery? This is why we advise people to keep checking with TEC as to when the debt is registred so they can make an in-time declaration.

Are the name and address correct on the charge certificate.

What are the VRM and PCN number.

The name and address are correct.


What a received was a letter regarding the £280 that was overdue. This is the first time I ever found out about the PCN, I contacted TfL as stated and they said to wait for the statutory declaration form or the charge form, because we could not appeal since it was out of the 28 days. You are correct in stating that we did not receive the PCN or order for recovery.

Here's the status timeline. The critical event was not getting the order for recovery and I would have thought a judge review on the papers would succeed but you have to pay for this.

Hi Stamfordman,

Thank you for taking a look. I was shocked when my OTT application was rejected to be honest with you. Would you say that a N244 application is worth making? What would I specifically say in there? Was the rejection by TEC justified based on what I had said?

Was the rejection by TEC justified based on what I had said?

Probably not!

You must be clear and post this correspondence:

'The first correspondence I received ..referenced a massive increase to £280. I appealed but they rejected it'

??

£280 can only be £180+£90(surcharge)+£10. Which is an Order for Recovery. But you said that you didn't receive this.

Notices have names e.g. NTO, OfR etc.

The authority MAY disregard late reps or may consider them. You've used the term 'rejected' and I don't know what this means.

Apologies for the confusion, even I am confused here and trying to piece together what had happened. What I think happened looking at my email, we did not receive the original penalty charge notice and only received it when the next batch arrived which was the reminder. We appealed it and it was rejected for being out of time, at this stage the fine had increased. I then called TfL to let them know that we have sufficient reasoning why we are not liable for the charge, they had then said over the phone to wait for the charge. The next time we hear about the PCN is when Bailiffs are at the door. What may have happened is that I did not receive the OfR because I would have appealed to the TEC instantly. It seems like my stupid self got the forms mixed up.

Yes, £280 is the order for recovery amount for a congestion charge PCN.

Can you find the letter you got telling you this?

From the timeline it looks like you got a charge certificate which would have been for £240, to which you contacted them and they replied by email saying they'd got this (I blanked your email address in the timeline).

It would help if saw all communications between you and them.

Hi Stamfordman,

I believe you are correct, it was a charge certificate. I have found their witness statement and confirms my point of view, I did not receive the original penalty charge notice and actually appealed under the £240.00 ticket which was out of time and they did not consider it but reduced the price to £90 because they accepted the circumstances. But, if this was made on time, which is impossible because I did not receive the original PCN it would have been accepted. I have attached their witness statement below which confirms our side of the story.

They rejected it. I called, they said wait for the charge certificate which never came and I had Bailiffs come for collection.

Apologies I could not find the PCN. However, everything I have via email I have attached.

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Sorry I'm confusing things now - the charge certificate amount is £270 not £240.

From what you posted it looks like you just ignored their offer to pay the discounted penalty, and as the charge certificate had been served it then rolled on to the order for recovery, which you didn't get.

I can't see anything that says 'wait for the charge certificate'.

Hi Stamfordman,
Apologies for confusing you further.

After that letter arrived, I did not ignore their offer for the discounted penalty. I called their payment number instantly and told them the circumstances that if I had received the original penalty charge notice, my appeal would be successful, since I am not liable for the charge since the vehicle was on hire. They said they cannot do anything about it and advised waiting for the charge certificate and then making an appeal with the TEC. That was done over a phone call; obviously, that charge certificate never came.

I shouldn't be paying their discounted penalty for a PCN I am not liable for. Hence why I went to the TEC, I had ticked the box that I did not receive the original PCN, which is true, I received the reminder which I appealed.