3. Southwark PCN 52m Failing to comply with a prohibition, Rye Ln & Copeland Rd
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Southwark PCN 52m Failing to comply with a prohibition, Rye Ln & Copeland Rd
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I received this PCN, for entering a restricted zone between Rye Ln & Copeland Rd in London Borough of Southwark. Obviously I didn't know this was a restricted zone until I received this PCN. The restricted zone begins right after a left turn off of Rye Lane with no prior warning on the approach road. I revisited the area on Google map today to take photos (attached) and as you can see, there is no clear warning on the approach road, the signs are small and high up and just after you turn left making it dangerous to back out of the turn once committed and the road markings (on the road surface) are wiped off the road surface compared to the return way. The provided Google map, which likely was taken older than my PCN evidence photo (attached) showed faint road markings. Since then it is likely the paint has deteriorated to a degree that was not visible or noticeable by my eyes.

Any advice you can provide or the likely hood of me having grounds for a successful appeal would be much appreciated. [ Guests cannot view attachments ] [ Guests cannot view attachments ]
@cp8759

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Re: Southwark PCN 52m Failing to comply with a prohibition, Rye Ln & Copeland Rd
« Reply #1 on: »
The location stated on the PCN is wrong, draft reps:

Dear London Borough of Southwark,

The alleged contravention did not occur. Your CCTV footage show my vehicle never reached the junction of Rye Lane and Copeland Road, my vehicle was at the junction of Rye Lane with Sternhall Lane. The junction with Copeland Road isn't shown on the CCTV and owing to its position, it would be impossible for the CCTV camera to even see the junction between Rye Lane and Copeland Road.

In light of the above the penalty charge must be cancelled.

Yours faithfully,

The council will reject this, but it's obviously a viable argument for the tribunal.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Southwark PCN 52m Failing to comply with a prohibition, Rye Ln & Copeland Rd
« Reply #2 on: »
Thank you for your kind and prompt reply. The exact location on the PCN (JK14994838) is "RYE LANE JUNCTION COPELAND ROAD" as in the attached picture. Would that make any difference in the way that I should draft the appeal representation? Do you think the poor road markings arguments would still add more weight to appeal?

Thanks and regards,

Sameh [ Guests cannot view attachments ]

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Re: Southwark PCN 52m Failing to comply with a prohibition, Rye Ln & Copeland Rd
« Reply #3 on: »
The PCN is invalid. They  cannot increase the price 28 days from the date of the notice. Happy to do this one at Tribunal. One already won and another not contested.

I make this collateral challenge re the validity of the PCN. The period in which you may serve a charge certificate is wrongly expressed as it is truncated. Please see Schedule I of the 2003 Act which clearly states from the date of service as provided at para. 5(2)

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/schedule/1/enacted

In light of the above, please cancel.

FYI only.

https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/southwark-failing-to-comply-with-a-prohibition-of-certain-types-of-vehicle/msg66338/#msg66338

What does the current website say re payment?
« Last Edit: April 22, 2025, 09:04:37 pm by Hippocrates »
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IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r
Re: Southwark PCN 52m Failing to comply with a prohibition, Rye Ln & Copeland Rd
« Reply #4 on: »
@cp8759

Hi all,

This is the rejection of representation I received today. What's your view?

Regards

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Re: Southwark PCN 52m Failing to comply with a prohibition, Rye Ln & Copeland Rd
« Reply #5 on: »
The rejection also mis states the time at which the may increase the payment this and the errors highlighted by Hippo are winners
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Re: Southwark PCN 52m Failing to comply with a prohibition, Rye Ln & Copeland Rd
« Reply #6 on: »
Take your pick who represents you.
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IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r
Re: Southwark PCN 52m Failing to comply with a prohibition, Rye Ln & Copeland Rd
« Reply #7 on: »
@Sameh the rejection is nonsense, and you can take your pick as to who represents you. The latest notable decision for this location is L & F Plant Hire Ltd v London Borough of Southwark (2250022582, 5 May 2025), and that is based entirely on Nicola Samson v London Borough of Southwark (2230132125, 20 March 2023).
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Southwark PCN 52m Failing to comply with a prohibition, Rye Ln & Copeland Rd
« Reply #8 on: »
@Sameh @cp8759 I would ask cp8759 to do this case for you.
Logged
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r
Re: Southwark PCN 52m Failing to comply with a prohibition, Rye Ln & Copeland Rd
« Reply #9 on: »
Quote from: Pastmybest on May 26, 2025, 12:52:06 pm
The rejection also mis states the time at which the may increase the payment this and the errors highlighted by Hippo are winners
It now seems that adjudicators are changing their minds on the website issues and stating it is for the High Court.
Logged
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r
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  3. Southwark PCN 52m Failing to comply with a prohibition, Rye Ln & Copeland Rd