Author Topic: Southwark-52M No motor vehicles-Bailiff  (Read 218 times)

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Southwark-52M No motor vehicles-Bailiff
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Hello,

Newlyn bailiffs sent me on the 05.07.2024 a Notice Of Enforcement in behalf of the London borough of Southwark.
I have 7 days before a Gentleman might come over to pay me a visit.
They claim 204 + 75 for a 52M 'No motor vehicles' from 13.10.2023.
The footage on the borough website indicates that it indeed happened.

Had no knowledge whatsoever of the contravention, nor did I receive any notice before this one NOE.
That probably happened becasue I did moved to a new place on the 23.11.2023 and changed my address with the DVLA on the 30.11.2023.
Before that, since June, I was staying with my partner and the home was vacated (officially, council notified)

My goal is to get a reduced fine, e.g. same if I was paying within 14 days after getting the initial PCN.

Several questions, if I may:
1) To my understanding, I have no other option but to first pay, and try everything else later, is that correct?
2) I believe that I could send TEC Northampton either a TE7+TE9 or PE2+PE3, but I am not sure which one?
3) What might I claim in those TE7/PE2? Should I mention that the house was vacated? Should I write exact dates? Should I add some proof?

Many thanks,
ClulessDriver.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2024, 10:51:50 pm by cluelessDriver »

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Re: Southwark-52M No motor vehicles-Bailiff
« Reply #1 on: »
The only avenue to getting the matter reverted is to submit an Out-of-Time Witness Statement, or a Statutory Declaration.  Which one depends under what legislation the original PCN was issued, but the contravention is for failing to comply with a prohibition on motor vehicles, so it looks like you were in London and passed a "Flying Motorbike" sign. The legislation used would be the London Local Authorities and Transport for London Act 2003. This means you will need to submit an OOT Statutory Declaration.

Because this will be OOT, the council are allowed to object to it, and invariably do so, so you need a bullet-proof statement on the SD on why you didn't receive the PCN. It is here that I get a bit puzzled, because the bailiff letter says the contravention date is the 13th Oct 2023, but you moved house on 23rd November 2023, well over a month after the contravention date. They only have 28 days to issue the PCN so it should have arrived before the 23rd, I reckon.  Is your vehicle leased or hired ?

Here is the TEC website forms page
https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/traffic-enforcement-centre-forms
The forms are PE2 and PE3.
PE3 is the actual Statutory Declaration, and PE2 is to apply to submit the SD out-of-time. This is what the council can obhect to by stating all the statutory enforcement documents were sent to the address recorded by DVLA for the V5 for the vehicle

And finally, the above procedure is totally independent of whether you have paid the bailiffs or not, so with the amount outstanding being the minimum amount before bailiffs visits, I would recommend you pay them, because it is now well known that TEC are taking much longer than before at processing SDs, and in that time the bailiffs could make a visit to you and add on a visit fee. If you win your OOT, the matter is reverted to the PCN which you can then pay or appeal. Any surplus you are entitled to get refunded.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2024, 01:05:32 am by Incandescent »

Re: Southwark-52M No motor vehicles-Bailiff
« Reply #2 on: »
It's PE forms but don't try to complete them before running a draft past us.

Re: Southwark-52M No motor vehicles-Bailiff
« Reply #3 on: »
Pay the debt before the date stated on page 2. This caps your liability.

The next stage would see them add a further eye-watering £275 to the debt.

Give us their reference number and your VRM, we can then look at the PCN log on the council's website without which you and we would be blundering in the dark. In practice you get one bite at the TEC cherry so get all facts - essentially dates and notices- in play.

Also, tell us exactly:
the date stated on your new V5C;
the official date for the end of your occupancy and provide proof.

As you've probably guessed, there's a world of legal difference between you choosing to stay with another person at a different address and ignoring correspondence sent to the address where you were the occupier and not being the occupier and there being a delay in DVLA updating their records.

Re: Southwark-52M No motor vehicles-Bailiff
« Reply #4 on: »
Thank you very much everyone,
From the discussion it seems as a long shot, it will be indeed quite hard to prove that I was vigilant in getting my mail from my previous house.
Will pay and put it to rest.
Much appreciated, thank you all very much, it is very comforting to get a good advice from someone who cares, you are doing god work in here.

Re: Southwark-52M No motor vehicles-Bailiff
« Reply #5 on: »
Not good enough apparently if you just pay and don't submit an OOT! 

WE'll do the detailed stuff, all we need is info.

Re: Southwark-52M No motor vehicles-Bailiff
« Reply #6 on: »
Will pay and put it to rest.
Why not pay it and then try and get the money back? You might as well try, the worst that can happen is they say no.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
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