3. Southampton Council ticket. Parked in residents only
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Re: Southampton Council ticket. Parked in residents only
« Reply #15 on: »
Photos:















I'd like to see what others think, but just looking at the traffic order it seems you were parked in the location described in schedule 6.2.3 (Parking Places with 2 hour limit (No Return Same Day) 8am - 6pm Monday to Saturday Except Permit Holders) on page 86:

Harborough Road West From 33m south of the southern kerbline of Wilton Avenue southwards for 183m

If I'm right about that, you were legally parked all along.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Southampton Council ticket. Parked in residents only
« Reply #16 on: »
Hi and thankyou for your reply.
I can see why you might think this, this was also my assumption.
However, where I parked was permit only, the other side of the road is 2 hour no return!
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Re: Southampton Council ticket. Parked in residents only
« Reply #17 on: »
Quote from: Mare84 on October 17, 2023, 06:08:13 pm
Hi and thankyou for your reply.
I can see why you might think this, this was also my assumption.
However, where I parked was permit only, the other side of the road is 2 hour no return!

But all the GSV photos and links you've given us refer to the western side of the road, and by comparing the CEO photos to the google maps images I can see that you were definitely parked on the western side. The traffic order says 2 hours no return on the western side "From 33m south of the southern kerbline of Wilton Avenue southwards for 183m".

Therefore it is 2 hours no return, and the signs are wrong. If there is a conflict between the traffic order and the signs, the traffic order takes precedence.

So it's a simple challenge:

Dear Southampton City Council,

Having consulted The City of Southampton (Residents Parking) (Zones 1-12 & 16) Order 2014 I note my vehicle was parked in a parking place designated as "Parking Places with 2 hour limit (No Return Same Day) 8am - 6pm Monday to Saturday Except Permit Holders", see the second entry for the western side of Harborough Road on page 86 of the traffic order. As the CEO only observed my vehicle for 5 minutes no contravention is established.

While I appreciate the signs do not reflect the effect of the traffic order, where there is a conflict between the two the traffic order takes precedence. It follows that notwithstanding the signs, there has been no contravention.

Yours faithfully,
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Southampton Council ticket. Parked in residents only
« Reply #18 on: »
Good morning CP, wow thankyou. I did take a look at the traffic order but it is quite overwhelming! Please may I ask, how are you sure I am on the West? Through Google maps? Sorry if this is a silly question
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Re: Southampton Council ticket. Parked in residents only
« Reply #19 on: »
Surely you know where you were parked?

Anyway, if you look at the holes in the road behind your car in the fourth picture above, they match perfectly with google street view at https://maps.app.goo.gl/YqCHP3g1xBipD7aV6 as illustrated here:





Also if you look at the GSV here https://maps.app.goo.gl/v2R5AgzvVs99g5W49 you can see the same houses at the end of the road that are in the final council image in my post at the top of this page. If you had been parked on the eastern side then the houses at the end of the road would have been the ones you can see here: https://maps.app.goo.gl/aq6uwgLgfpAC1kcw6

Therefore, you were 100% on the western side.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Southampton Council ticket. Parked in residents only
« Reply #20 on: »
Quote from: cp8759 on October 19, 2023, 12:17:45 am
Surely you know where you were parked?

Anyway, if you look at the holes in the road behind your car in the fourth picture above, they match perfectly with google street view at https://maps.app.goo.gl/YqCHP3g1xBipD7aV6 as illustrated here:





Also if you look at the GSV here https://maps.app.goo.gl/v2R5AgzvVs99g5W49 you can see the same houses at the end of the road that are in the final council image in my post at the top of this page. If you had been parked on the eastern side then the houses at the end of the road would have been the ones you can see here: https://maps.app.goo.gl/aq6uwgLgfpAC1kcw6

Therefore, you were 100% on the western side.


At 9.20 the sun would be in the east and shadows would 'point' to the west.  The shadow of the op's car, in the photos clearly shows the car is on the western side of the road.
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Re: Southampton Council ticket. Parked in residents only
« Reply #21 on: »
Hello!
I have received notice of rejection of representations. What a complete pain in the A*se… please see screenshot of email. What are the next steps?
Thankyou

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Re: Southampton Council ticket. Parked in residents only
« Reply #22 on: »
Quote
What are the next steps?
They have not re-offered the discount, so it is now a total no-brainer to take them to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal as the penalty does not increase, and there are no additional costs.
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Re: Southampton Council ticket. Parked in residents only
« Reply #23 on: »
So I just let this goto tribunal? What will happen then? Thankyou
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Re: Southampton Council ticket. Parked in residents only
« Reply #24 on: »
Quote from: Mare84 on January 15, 2024, 12:33:29 pm
So I just let this goto tribunal? What will happen then? Thankyou
Well, you don't just "let it go" to the tribunal, you have to register a case. For your case, all you need do at this stage is state "I rely on my formal representations against the Notice to Owner". Once you've got a date tell us, and we'll help you tidy up your reps.
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Re: Southampton Council ticket. Parked in residents only
« Reply #25 on: »
Thankyou Incandescent! I really appreciate your time! I will do that. Thanks
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Re: Southampton Council ticket. Parked in residents only
« Reply #26 on: »
Hi, I have had a reply from the tribunal. The council has uploaded evidence. I can respond. I also have 7 days to choose an adjudication or a telephone/video hearing? Which one do I choose? Thankyou
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Re: Southampton Council ticket. Parked in residents only
« Reply #27 on: »
Choose the telephone/video hearing. An adjudication on the papers only is not recommended.
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Re: Southampton Council ticket. Parked in residents only
« Reply #28 on: »
Quote from: Mare84 on January 31, 2024, 09:18:12 am
Hi, I have had a reply from the tribunal. The council has uploaded evidence. I can respond. I also have 7 days to choose an adjudication or a telephone/video hearing? Which one do I choose? Thankyou
One key issue is whether you want to represent yourself or whether you want one of us to act as your representative, I'll drop you a PM so you have some options.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Southampton Council ticket. Parked in residents only
« Reply #29 on: »
Logged
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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