3. PCN | Slough | Bus Lane Incursion Turning Left
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PCN | Slough | Bus Lane Incursion Turning Left
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Hi All,

I entered a bus lane slightly earlier than normal to turn left. Unfortunately, this triggered their camera and I was fined.

In the video I can clearly be shown to indicating left. This is my first offence - is there a recommended form of words to argue for leniency or some grace?

As ever - any advice gratefully appreciated!

Video here : https://imgur.com/a/GqgWXAI






« Last Edit: May 04, 2024, 12:19:18 am by DavidJP »
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Re: PCN | Slough | Bus Lane Incursion Turning Left
« Reply #1 on: »
Casses like this cannot be assessed without the video, and you've redacted your PCN Number and car reg, so we can't go and look at it. So download and post it here yourself, or unredact the above.
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Re: PCN | Slough | Bus Lane Incursion Turning Left
« Reply #2 on: »
Apologies - now with video :

https://i.imgur.com/Asqd4sM.mp4
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Re: PCN | Slough | Bus Lane Incursion Turning Left
« Reply #3 on: »
As I thought, another money-grubbing PCN with no traffic management benefits at all.  Many times we see people scooting up the bus lane to turn left because they're tired of waiting in a queue to get to the turn.  Here you just drifted into the bus lane on what I would class as de minimis basis with no undertaking or any attempt to take advantage. .

Wait for others to comment, but I'd be strongly tempted to take the council all the way to adjudication on this one.
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Re: PCN | Slough | Bus Lane Incursion Turning Left
« Reply #4 on: »
I have requested the traffic order and also the make and model of the camera, just in case there are any exploitable issues around the camera approval.

However as an opening shot it might be worth deploying the strategy of last resort, do you have any meaningful mitigation that could be deployed?
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: PCN | Slough | Bus Lane Incursion Turning Left
« Reply #5 on: »
Many thanks - no mitigation except that the driver in question isn't too familiar with this stretch of road and doesn't often drive the vehicle.

I'm not sure how that would wash.

Does the Traffic Order and Make and Model of the camera take a long time to ascertain?

Thank you again.
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Re: PCN | Slough | Bus Lane Incursion Turning Left
« Reply #6 on: »
Quote from: DavidJP on May 04, 2024, 11:26:42 am
Does the Traffic Order and Make and Model of the camera take a long time to ascertain?
It could take 20 working days, possible more.

I suggest you put a representation in on the last day of the discount (14 May), this should see the discount reoffered in the rejection but it will buy you several more weeks. As the purpose of the representation is really just to buy you some time it's not massively important what is said, as long as it is reasonable and polite.

Type up a draft based on the driver not being familiar with the road and put it on here for us to review.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: PCN | Slough | Bus Lane Incursion Turning Left
« Reply #7 on: »
Hi All - is this draft OK? Grateful for review...



I am writing to appeal a recent penalty charge notice received for briefly drifting into a bus lane while making a left turn.

The incident occurred on a road the driver does not regularly travel, and their momentary lapse was not an attempt to exploit the bus lane. It was an unintended mistake while navigating unfamiliar roads. Importantly, this the drivers first offence of this nature, and the incursion into the bus lane was on a de-minimis basis, with no disruption to traffic flow or safety - furthermore, there was no intention to gain any advantage over any other motorist.

Considering the minimal nature of the infringement, the drivers commitment to safe driving, and this being a first-time offence, I respectfully request your discretion in cancelling the fine.

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Re: PCN | Slough | Bus Lane Incursion Turning Left
« Reply #8 on: »
Quote
Importantly, this is the drivers first offence of this nature,

However looks OK as a "holding" representation.
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Re: PCN | Slough | Bus Lane Incursion Turning Left
« Reply #9 on: »
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: PCN | Slough | Bus Lane Incursion Turning Left
« Reply #10 on: »
Quote from: cp8759 on May 08, 2024, 06:06:58 pm
FOI response from the council:

[img width=1100 height=126.99653625488281]https://i.imgur.com/1SbtfHD.png[/img]

The camera certificates at https://assets.dft.gov.uk/publications/tma-part-6-list-of-approved-devices/approved-device-certifications-slough.zip don't tie back to that make and model.

The Borough of Slough (Various Roads) Bus Lane Order 2020.

Thank you very much for your efforts here. I am very grateful.


I've not yet submitted the appeal. Should I augment the original draft to reflect in bold :


I am writing to appeal a recent penalty charge notice received for briefly drifting into a bus lane while making a left turn.

The incident occurred on a road the driver does not regularly travel, and their momentary lapse was not an attempt to exploit the bus lane. It was an unintended mistake while navigating unfamiliar roads. Importantly, this the drivers first offence of this nature, and the incursion into the bus lane was on a de-minimis basis, with no disruption to traffic flow or safety - furthermore, there was no intention to gain any advantage over any other motorist.Furthermore, the make and model of the bus lane enforcement camera for this carriageway (TES Small Blue Enforcement CCTV Camera - Model Blue GEN2 is not listed on the certification of “APPROVED DEVICES” under ARTICLE 2(b) OF THE BUS LANES (APPROVED DEVICES) (ENGLAND) ORDER 2005

Considering the minimal nature of the infringement, the drivers commitment to safe driving, and this being a first-time offence, I respectfully request your discretion in cancelling the fine.
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Re: PCN | Slough | Bus Lane Incursion Turning Left
« Reply #11 on: »
@DavidJP no you don't want to mention anything about the camera authorisation, there is no reason to show your hand at this stage. I think what you put in reply 7 above is fine at this point.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: PCN | Slough | Bus Lane Incursion Turning Left
« Reply #12 on: »
Unfortunately, I have been issued a charge certificate - despite not being given an indication on the outcome of my appeal.

Grateful for any advice - should I dispute or pay? I'm really annoyed that they never bothered to tell me the outcome of the appeal.




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Re: PCN | Slough | Bus Lane Incursion Turning Left
« Reply #13 on: »
Go onto their website and look up the event log for your PCN. Most councils have these available on-line. Post it here if you can get it.

The backstop for this CC is to wait for the Order for Recovery, then submit a Witness Statement that will reset the matter to the PCN stage.
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Re: PCN | Slough | Bus Lane Incursion Turning Left
« Reply #14 on: »
Thank you.

Rather frustratingly there is no electronic log on their website when I log into see my PCN!

Do I need to wait now to dispute? I'm tempted to call them and ask them where their response to my appeal is.
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