Author Topic: Setting us up to fail - ULEZ fees at Heathrow  (Read 3086 times)

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Re: Setting us up to fail - ULEZ fees at Heathrow
« Reply #15 on: »
but you seem to have ignored Enceladus instructions in post#11
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Re: Setting us up to fail - ULEZ fees at Heathrow
« Reply #16 on: »
I haven’t ignored it. I have checked the details and it is showing as non-compliant. As it’s a diesel guzzling pickup truck I tend to agree TfL may be right on this?
What makes no sense is I didn’t get any notifications relating to ULEZ when I travelled in December?
It’s a Nissan Navara WH16 PWN if that helps?

Re: Setting us up to fail - ULEZ fees at Heathrow
« Reply #17 on: »
As I said earlier, "thinking" can be the wrong answer, which is why we're here. People thinking that what the council etc say is right and you must obey. They sometimes get it wrong and that's why the good folk on here read through the fine print and find the faults that prove my point. One wrong word on your penalty charge notice can make a big difference to your case. :)
Bus driving since 1973. My advice, if you have a PSV licence, destroy it when you get to 65 or you'll be forever in demand.
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Re: Setting us up to fail - ULEZ fees at Heathrow
« Reply #18 on: »
I'm quite shocked that a 2016-registered vehicle is not ULEZ compliant, and would suggest you get the emissions figures from Nissan.

Re: Setting us up to fail - ULEZ fees at Heathrow
« Reply #19 on: »
I’ll contact them. Thank you

Re: Setting us up to fail - ULEZ fees at Heathrow
« Reply #20 on: »
DVLA website shows the emissions as attached.

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Re: Setting us up to fail - ULEZ fees at Heathrow
« Reply #21 on: »
No, you need the detailed figures from Nissan.
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Re: Setting us up to fail - ULEZ fees at Heathrow
« Reply #22 on: »
Please post up a picture of the emissions section of the V5c of the registration doc.
Is your Navara fitted with an AdBlue system?
And is the exact model a Nissan NP300 Navara Tekna DCI Auto.

A diesel car registered March 2016 should be Euro 6.

However this seems to be a goods vehicle “Category N1“: Vehicles used for the carriage of goods and having a maximum mass not exceeding 3.5 tonnes. For these the Euro 6 limit came in a year later, September 2016, than for "Category M1" passenger cars.

Re: Setting us up to fail - ULEZ fees at Heathrow
« Reply #23 on: »
Hi
No, it doesn’t have AdBlue, my husband checked and that was 6 months later than this pickup.
Here’s the details from the V5. I can’t find what emission amounts are - I just went around in circles so finding that could be made easier.
Thank you

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Re: Setting us up to fail - ULEZ fees at Heathrow
« Reply #24 on: »
Here's the V5C the right way round:



The CO level looks OK but I don't understand the particulates value, as even the euro 1 standard from 1993 had a maximum level of 0.25 according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_emission_standards#Emission_standards_for_light_commercial_vehicles (scroll down to the table for Category N1 Class III & N2), my suspicion is that the values on the V5C are in g/KwH rather than g/Km.

Looking at the table at https://content.tfl.gov.uk/lez-scheme-order.pdf on page 31 all the values are in g/KwH, so I think you'd have to contact Nissan for some definitive figures.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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Re: Setting us up to fail - ULEZ fees at Heathrow
« Reply #25 on: »
The balance of probability is that this Navara is Euro 5b. The NOx is too high for Euro 6b at 0.219g/km and needs to be 0.125. However I too don't understand the PM numbers.

Assuming the rules are the same as a category M1 car then it's the NOx and PM (Particulate Matter) numbers that matter and gets the vehicle past the finishing post. Not just total Euro E6 compliance.

Seems that in 2016 Nissan introduced a revised Navara with AdBlue and other engine modifications to make it Euro 6b. So this Navara must be one of the last of the original spec. Registered in March 2016 and wouldn't have been legal to register in September 2016.

But the OP should ask Nissan for definitive emissions status and numbers.
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Re: Setting us up to fail - ULEZ fees at Heathrow
« Reply #26 on: »
OP, the NOR you've posted allowed payment of £90 - effectively the discount - until 14 days beginning the date of the letter, 8 April. This expired on 21st so you're in for the full penalty or worse if you don't register an appeal in time.

IMO, the thread has missed a key aspect of your account which has not been examined.



in December’23 I drove to T3 Heathrow to drop off my kids and returned a week later to collect them.

My husband and I used Heathrow T5 to travel in March ‘24. We used the Meet and Greet parking facility and returned a week later.
A few days after we arrived home I received a PCN for the day we got to the airport. It was an immediate £90 fine. A week later I got a second one for the day we got home

Why didn’t I get any penalty notices in December? Same vehicle, same trip.

Exactly. Unless the limits changed between Dec. and March or you did not enter the ULEZ area (route to T3 being different from T5) but as 'The ULEZ was expanded across all London boroughs on 29 August 2023.', that's not likely to be the case, then IMO you had a legitimate expectation that your vehicle was compliant and not as you posted 'It’s a Nissan Navara so I’d thought it wouldn’t be compliant.'.

- unless your registered keeper address has changed since Dec. '23 and there are two more PCNs in circulation!
« Last Edit: April 27, 2024, 05:00:01 pm by H C Andersen »

Re: Setting us up to fail - ULEZ fees at Heathrow
« Reply #27 on: »
This has been my query from day 1. Same driver, vehicle and journey through LHR after the expansion date.
I never received any notification for either of those journeys in December 2023 but I daren’t ask in case I receive another 2 penalties!
Once I knew what ULEZ was I had assumed the pickup wasn’t compliant but I know zero about cars and hadn’t realised a diesel engine in such a large vehicle could ever be deemed low emission.
Thank you everyone for your advice.

Re: Setting us up to fail - ULEZ fees at Heathrow
« Reply #28 on: »
@H C Andersen it is entirely possible that the cameras did not pick up the car in December 2023 (no ANPR camera is 100% effective), or maybe there were problems with the camera, either intrinsic to the camera or caused by vandals.

@Susaq you need to either get the emissions data from Nissan and appeal, or pay the penalty. If you do nothing the penalty will increase by 50% to £270.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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Re: Setting us up to fail - ULEZ fees at Heathrow
« Reply #29 on: »
Thank you.