3. Rotherham Council, PCN code 86, Council estate access road off of St Bede's Road
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orionsShoe

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Rotherham Council, PCN code 86, Council estate access road off of St Bede's Road
« on: March 11, 2025, 04:35:10 pm »
Hi All,

My partner and I thought this access road - see photos - was a public street, therefore wasn't paying attention to any signage and could therefore park.

Got a ticket within 1 hour of parking and since worked out that it looks like it is an access road to a private property presumably owned by Rotherham council. Signage says no parking but the driver didn't see this and the sign is actually angled slightly away when walking up the hill so if you miss it when arriving, you're likely to never see it.

After posting on UK reddit legal advice they suggested a number of arguments might be worth trying but weren't totally sure:

- Signage isn't as obvious as it might be and there's no sign saying you are entering or on private land.
- Can the council actually issue PCNs on their own private land where there are no road markings?

The ticket itself (see images) says "location: Liberty House Car Park" which is incorrect since it is an access road to the car park.

Any advice and discussion would be greatly appreciated. Particularly interested in whether the council has the authority from TFA 2004 to issue PCNs on its own land.

Thank you

GSV link: https://maps.app.goo.gl/uwmEzn9nDZ6WNaja9

https://imgur.com/a/q6ssEcm










« Last Edit: March 11, 2025, 05:01:59 pm by orionsShoe »
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John U.K.

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Re: Rotherham Council, PCN code 86, Council estate access road off of St Bede's Road
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2025, 04:40:33 pm »
Quote
  see photos




For meaningful advice please to have a read of
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/

and post up here
both sides of the unredacted PCN,
any Council photos,
and
a GSV link to the location.,
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orionsShoe

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Re: Rotherham Council, PCN code 86, Council estate access road off of St Bede's Road
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2025, 05:05:04 pm »
Hi John,

I've added the additional photos and the GSV link as suggested and read the 'read first' post. Let me know if you think I should repost a new topic rather than modify like I have done or anything else you think I should add.

Thanks!
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orionsShoe

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Re: Rotherham Council, PCN code 86, Council estate access road off of St Bede's Road
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2025, 12:07:09 pm »
Hi, does anyone have any opinion on this? Don't want to wait until day 13 before someone starting to advise me on this.

Thank you in advance to anybody reading :)
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stamfordman

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Re: Rotherham Council, PCN code 86, Council estate access road off of St Bede's Road
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2025, 12:31:40 pm »
The terms board does say park only in allocated areas but I can't see any bay markings but there are bay areas. I presume if you had parked in those you would have got a PCN for not having a permit.

We could get the car park order to see if it stands up.

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H C Andersen

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Re: Rotherham Council, PCN code 86, Council estate access road off of St Bede's Road
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2025, 01:32:58 pm »
PCN *****

I am challenging the above PCN on the grounds that the contravention did not occur and the penalty exceeded the amount applicable in the circumstances of the case.

Issuance of this PCN is predicated on the council's belief that the location was part of an off-street parking area regulated by an order made under s32 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984, however I cannot find Liberty House Car Park listed under any Schedule to a traffic regulation order made by the council. If the authority is not able to produce such a provision in an order then the PCN must be cancelled. Any rejection of these grounds must therefore include a copy of the order and not just an assertion that such exists.

In any event, there are no warnings at the site that a penalty charge of £50 might be payable for a breach of the location's terms and conditions and simply stating that a 'penalty charge may be issued' is insufficient.

Yours

Some thoughts.
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stamfordman

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Re: Rotherham Council, PCN code 86, Council estate access road off of St Bede's Road
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2025, 01:42:57 pm »
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orionsShoe

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Re: Rotherham Council, PCN code 86, Council estate access road off of St Bede's Road
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2025, 03:26:46 pm »
Thank you all for the information provided so far.

So, it looks like the order stands up? As a newbie, I'm guessing that the parking order is for the purposes of giving them authority to issue PCNs in that location?

Quote
In any event, there are no warnings at the site that a penalty charge of £50 might be payable for a breach of the location's terms and conditions and simply stating that a 'penalty charge may be issued' is insufficient.

Is this really an argument that might be successful on its own? Playing devils advocate, why would they need to give an exact figure to the PCN - I believe in Rotherham PCN's are either £70 or £50, so it's public information. Having said that, in private car parks I've always seen the threat of fines quoted in exact figures.

Is Code 86 the correct code since it says "Parked beyond the bay markings" when there are no bays marked (even in what we assume is the parking area) and this is not what the terms board refers to? If challenged, would the council simply reissue the PCN with the correct wording?
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H C Andersen

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Re: Rotherham Council, PCN code 86, Council estate access road off of St Bede's Road
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2025, 03:37:50 pm »
Thanks.

....and the extent of the area referred to as Liberty House Car Park is??

IMO, absent a plan of the site then whether the location was actually within the boundaries is debatable.

Schedule 1 to the original 2011 order has 8 columns. Where a vehicle is required to park is specified in column 2 and cross-referenced to provisions within the order. The 2022 amendment does not carry this requirement, so IMO unless there's been an intervening amendment which removes this requirement from the 2011 order then parking beyond the markings is not a contravention.

The authority are still on the back foot IMO.
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orionsShoe

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Re: Rotherham Council, PCN code 86, Council estate access road off of St Bede's Road
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2025, 11:16:17 am »
I think without a clear basis to appeal I will pay the discounted fine.

The arguments above might work but, as far as I understand, it would likely go to the formal appeal stage and then I would lose my discount?

Therefore, unless there is some new information I will pay the discounted fine tomorrow.

Thank you both for your advice.
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