3. Richmond Upon Thames, code 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours, DARELL RD RICHMOND
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Richmond Upon Thames, code 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours, DARELL RD RICHMOND
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Hi All!
I parked outside of a school, on the zigzags.
It was this Wednesday, which unless I've completely lost the plot, was part of August.

Street View - I was parked roughly over the work 'CLEAR':

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.4686452,-0.2850187,3a,75y,158.76h,86.83t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1st2sflCMTT_ChLFms-hdPCg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?entry=ttu

Parking restrictions - I think - say August is excluded:



Here's the PCN:


I was going to send a challenge adding the photo of the parking restrictions - should I add anything else?
Or have I completely misinterpreted the meaning in the restrictions, and I should pay the fine?

Thanks!

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Re: Richmond Upon Thames, code 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours, DARELL RD RICHMOND
« Reply #1 on: »
@goldfishbrains the PCN has nothing to do with the zig-zags, it's for parking on a single yellow line:



You should not pay the penalty, you should work out exactly where you entered the controlled parking zone.

As far as I can work out from Richmond's CPZ map, you were parked in zone KB:



You therefore need to retrace your route and work out exactly where you entered the zone. Then go back to that zone entrance, and check if there are CPZ entry signs, and (whether the signs are there or not) get some photos and post them on here.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Richmond Upon Thames, code 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours, DARELL RD RICHMOND
« Reply #2 on: »
I hadn't even noticed that added new single yellow here - you can see in the google streetview, it wasn't there before.
Until recently (well, 2021) this road was not under the Controlled Zone restrictions. I can't see any mention in the consultation details (when proposing to expand the zone) that they would add the yellow line here.
https://www.richmond.gov.uk/services/roads_and_transport/transport_planning_schemes/transport_planning/parking_reviews/kew_cpz_review


@cp8759 - here are the



I marked where the sign is located on your map with a X:


Thanks,
Ravi
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Re: Richmond Upon Thames, code 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours, DARELL RD RICHMOND
« Reply #3 on: »
Unfortunately if the single yellow line was there and the CPZ entry sign was also there to be seen, the contravention is made out and as I'm sure you'll know, the fact that you didn't see or notice them is no defence.

You could make a plea for discretion.

The tactic of last resort would be to argue that the distance from the sign to the car was too great, and film a video to illustrate the point. We stick the video on youtube (as an unlisted video) and include it as a link in the representation, we can then use the view count from the youtube dashboard to confirm whether they've bothered to open the link and if they don't, we've got them for a failure to consider.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Richmond Upon Thames, code 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours, DARELL RD RICHMOND
« Reply #4 on: »

I would caution against this approach.

How far A is from B is objective whether as the crow flies or by major or minor roads whether avoiding motorways and tolls or whatever. Unless a video, or photographic evidence for that matter, adds to what could otherwise be expressed perfectly clearly in writing then I cannot see why an authority would be compelled to view. I think this tactic could backfire if it's all the OP would be relying on at an appeal. Indeed, it would be odd if reps did not set out in clear language what the video is there to bolster. Some issues such as visibility of signs etc. cannot adequately be expressed simply in writing, but how far A is from B?
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Re: Richmond Upon Thames, code 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours, DARELL RD RICHMOND
« Reply #5 on: »
The argument would seem to be one of inadequate signage. As per TSM where a SYL runs through a zig zag then there should be a  restriction plate even in a CPZ

See this case 2190152145

Mrs Ahmad has attended in person.

This PCN was issued for the alleged contravention of being parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours. The alleged contravention occurred in Curzon Crescent at 6.09pm on 11 January 2019.

I have looked at the CEO's images. There is an image of the back of Mrs Ahmad's car which shows that it was parked on school entrance markings. It is not in dispute that there is a sign next to the markings which says no stopping on entrance markings Mondays to Fridays between 8.15am to 9.15am and 2.30pm to 4.30pm. There is a single yellow line running through the entrance markings. There is no signage next to the single yellow line to alert a motorist to a separate no stopping and no waiting restriction.

The Council says that Curzon Crescent is part of a Controlled Parking Zone for which the controlled hours of parking are 8.30am to 6.30pm Mondays to Fridays. Mrs Ahmad says that she parked in the belief that the no stopping restrictions were the signed restrictions next to the school entrance markings.

I am allowing this appeal because the signage and markings are confusing to the motorist. A motorist who sees a no stopping sign next to school entrance markings will reasonably think that the no stopping restriction applies during the controlled hours shown on the sign unless there is an additional sign with a no waiting restriction for a single yellow line. A motorist is unlikely to realise that the yellow line is not part of the school entrance restrictions. There is normally no requirement for the signage of yellow line restrictions in an individual street which is part of a CPZ but this situation is different because the yellow line is likely to be seen as part of the school entrance markings.
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Re: Richmond Upon Thames, code 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours, DARELL RD RICHMOND
« Reply #6 on: »
@goldfishbrains you now have a couple of arguable points, and scope to trigger a procedural impropriety. Are you still with us?
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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