Author Topic: Richmond PCN - Parked during prescribed hours - Arragon Road, Twickenham  (Read 445 times)

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Hi all,
Any help with the PCN today would be greatly received.
After working all night the driver could not get back to the car in time to move it.
There do not appear to be any photos online.


Can the driver appeal?

Thank you so so much in advance.


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« Last Edit: September 19, 2023, 08:49:06 pm by joebloggs »

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Re: Richmond PCN - Parked during prescribed hours - Arragon Road, Twickenham
« Reply #1 on: »
If the driver is you, you can tell us, as the owner of the vehicle has responsibility for payment, not the driver. Of course they may be one and the same.
A quick look at Arragon Road on GSV shows a lot of single yellow lines and the hours are 08.30 to 18.30, so this does look a bit of a money-grubbing PCN, I have to say.  However, I cannot see any credible appeal argument re the contravention itself. The PCN also looks OK-ish, although I'm not happy with the text saying what to do if one receives a Notice to Owner.It is not strictly in accordance with the mandatory information, which emphasises that even if a challenge is made before a Notice to Owner is issued, that reps must be made afresh against the NtO.  This is to avoid the situation of a PCN recipient submitting a challenge, but not getting a response, receives an NtO, but doesn't submit the reps again as he thinks he has already made representations.
I don't think the text on the PCN is clear enough on this aspect. Quite why the council couldn't have just put the text in the regulations on PCN content straight into its PCNs is a mystery.

Re: Richmond PCN - Parked during prescribed hours - Arragon Road, Twickenham
« Reply #2 on: »
Thank you for your response. It is appreciated.
Photos have been uploaded now on Richmond now.

Re: Richmond PCN - Parked during prescribed hours - Arragon Road, Twickenham
« Reply #3 on: »
CEO notes:



Selection of CEO photos:















So on the left here: https://maps.app.goo.gl/2RGyh4qMddf38DUt5

The traffic order is The London Borough of Richmond upon Thames (Waiting and Loading Restriction) (Civil Enforcement Area) (Consolidation No. 8) Order 2008 and the relevant entry is 23(b)(ii) on page 23, however there is no “Rugby Tavern” public house on Arragon Road, which is a bit of a problem. The nearest Rugby Tavern I could find was over 10 miles away, so it seems the traffic order purports to create a restriction by reference to a landmark that doesn't exist.

Joebloggs if you're up for pursuing a technical challenge I can draft something for you, however you must assume the council won't accept anything you say and realistically this will have to be taken further (i.e. to the tribunal in due course).
« Last Edit: September 21, 2023, 11:58:07 pm by cp8759 »
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: Richmond PCN - Parked during prescribed hours - Arragon Road, Twickenham
« Reply #4 on: »
Atr the time of making the order (2008) The Rugby Tavern, 68 London Road (on the corner with and accessible from Arragon Road) was derelict
https://maps.app.goo.gl/CtGvfDV4riWP4J278

Today it is Shack 68
https://whatpub.com/pubs/HOU/6855/shack-68-twickenham
https://maps.app.goo.gl/E9fMXuMSZeebt3yTA

Re: Richmond PCN - Parked during prescribed hours - Arragon Road, Twickenham
« Reply #5 on: »
Atr the time of making the order (2008) The Rugby Tavern, 68 London Road (on the corner with and accessible from Arragon Road) was derelict
https://maps.app.goo.gl/CtGvfDV4riWP4J278

Today it is Shack 68
https://whatpub.com/pubs/HOU/6855/shack-68-twickenham
https://maps.app.goo.gl/E9fMXuMSZeebt3yTA
I noticed that too, but whether the council would realise that and be capable of articulating the point is another matter. At the very least we should be able to get a failure to consider.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: Richmond PCN - Parked during prescribed hours - Arragon Road, Twickenham
« Reply #6 on: »
Yes, I would be happy to completing a technical challenge if you have the time?
« Last Edit: September 24, 2023, 04:55:02 pm by cp8759 »

Re: Richmond PCN - Parked during prescribed hours - Arragon Road, Twickenham
« Reply #7 on: »
PLease don't bloat-quote. It's only an informal representation and I have a judicial review to prepare for, but for now this will do:

Dear London Borough of Richmond upon Thames,

I challenge liability for PCN RT39421829 on the following grounds.

The contravention cannot have occurred because The London Borough of Richmond upon Thames (Waiting and Loading Restriction) (Civil Enforcement Area) (Consolidation No. 8) Order 2008  does not create a waiting restriction at this location. This is because the provisions of the order relevant to this street make reference to a location that does not exist.

Yours faithfully,
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order