Author Topic: Redbridge School Streets - PCN issued for entering restricted zone 2 mins too early  (Read 517 times)

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Hello all

As above, I have received a PCN for entering a Redbridge Council ‘school streets’ zone (according to the council photo evidence) at 16:13, when the restricted hours end at 16:15. I genuinely believed the time was 16:15, which is why I proceeded.


Do I have any grounds for appeal, based on a 2-minute time discrepancy? I obviously believed my watch to be correct, but is this enough of a basis to challenge the PCN? Do I have any grounds to challenge the accuracy of their clock? Or is there any other basis on which I can appeal?


For context, the school street zone in question was introduced only two weeks ago, and I live in a road bordering the edge of the zone, so I’m fully aware of the timings of operation - it wasn’t a mistake, I entered the zone in the belief that the restricted period had ended.

All opinions and advice gratefully received, thank you

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Post the PCN hiding only name and address.

Of course, my apologies
« Last Edit: June 25, 2025, 04:42:23 pm by Dadofthree »

Please to have  aread of
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/

and post up here
all sides of the PCN,
any  Council images inc. the video,,
a GSV link to the location.

Only redact yr name & address from docs - leave all else in.


So you went through at about 14 seconds before 14:14 so you are looking at 84 seconds - while less than 60 is usually a good shout the tribunal for clock similarity this could also succeed as some adjudicators are kind about this.

« Last Edit: June 25, 2025, 05:12:46 pm by stamfordman »

Thank you. I make it 74 seconds(I think?) which is even less, so hopefully they would consider it :)

Sorry yes 74 seconds.

A few cases.

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Case Details
Case reference   2240414258
Appellant   Jane Caro
Authority   London Borough of Brent
VRM   NL55LVT
   
PCN Details
PCN   BT22290647
Contravention date   10 Jun 2024
Contravention time   14:31:00
Contravention location   Kempe Road J/W Chamberlayne Road
Penalty amount   GBP 130.00
Contravention   Fail comply restriction vehicles entering ped zone
   
Referral date   -
   
Decision Date   17 Oct 2024
Adjudicator   Belinda Pearce
Appeal decision   Appeal allowed
Direction   cancel the Penalty Charge Notice and the Enforcement Notice.
Reasons   The Appellant's representative, Mr S. Caro, attended a Personal Appeal Hearing before me today, 17th October 2024, to explain the contention personally.
Mr Caro also attended in the capacity of witness as to fact since he was the driver at the relevant time.
1. The Enforcement Authority assert that the said vehicle, being of a class prohibited, was driven at a location at a time when restricted for use by pedestrians and vehicles of excepted classes only.
2. The Appellant denies liability for the ensuing Penalty Charge Notice on the basis of the prevailing circumstances/challenge as stated in the written representations, which Mr Caro reiterated and comprehensively detailed at the Hearing.
3. The Enforcement Authority who assert that the said vehicle was so driven contrary to an operative restriction is obliged to adduce evidence to the requisite standard to substantiate that assertion:-
The evidence upon which the Enforcement Authority rely comprises copy Penalty Charge Notice, extracts of governing Traffic Management Order provisions, and contemporaneous photographic evidence: CCTV footage and still frames taken there-from showing the said vehicle passing the applicable signs notifying motorists of the restriction.
The Enforcement Authority also adduce a map/plan and images of the signage both at the location and those signs positioned in advance in the vicinity.
4. The evidence adduced by the Enforcement Authority was examined to evaluate the allegation in conjunction with the representations advanced by Mr Caro.
Mr Caro indicated his familiarity with the locale and the operative periods of the traffic regimes, and the regularity with which he travelled the route; Mr Caro expressed his vehemence at ensuring he only did so before/after the restricted hours.
Mr Caro contends that he had specifically addressed the time before proceeding and the time piece consulted by the Appellant verified to him that the permissible period had not yet been reached; since Mr Caro was aware of the particular time-piece running fast he was most certain that he was travelling at the location well before the restriction commenced.
5. The pertinent restricted period is stated on the signage as commencing at 2. 30 p.m.
The point of issue of the Penalty Charge Notice is 2.31 p.m.
The Enforcement Authority states in its Case Summary (which is not, of itself, evidence) that 'the time recorded....is the correct time,' and that the clock within that camera device is set 'by the Greenwich Mean Time (GMT).'
No evidence is forthcoming with regard to the method of calibration of the same, or to substantiate its accuracy.
Moreover, the calibration of a camera-clock may be subject to variance during its period of use.
Unless signage incorporates or is accompanied by a clock evidencing the time upon which the Enforcement Authority rely at the point of passing, variations will occur.
Evidentially I am not satisfied that the contravention occurred, accordingly I allow this Appeal.

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Case Details
Case reference   2240414702
Appellant   Chloe Butler
Authority   London Borough of Brent
VRM   KW24DZX
   
PCN Details
PCN   BT2245488A
Contravention date   25 Jun 2024
Contravention time   08:15:00
Contravention location   Clarence Road junction with Willesden Lane
Penalty amount   GBP 130.00
Contravention   Fail comply restriction vehicles entering ped zone
   
Referral date   -
   
Decision Date   09 Nov 2024
Adjudicator   Belinda Pearce
Appeal decision   Appeal allowed
Direction   cancel the Penalty Charge Notice and the Enforcement Notice.
Reasons   A Telephone Appeal Hearing was scheduled for 10.30 a.m. today, 9th November 2024; I spoke with the Appellant on the contact number provided.
1. The Enforcement Authority assert that the said vehicle, being of a class prohibited, was driven at a location at a time when restricted for use by pedestrians and vehicles of excepted classes only.
2. The Appellant denies liability for the ensuing Penalty Charge Notice on the basis of the prevailing circumstances and challenge comprehensively stated in her written representations (with supporting screen shots) which she reiterated and further detailed during the Telephone Hearing.
3. The Enforcement Authority who assert that the said vehicle was so driven contrary to an operative restriction is obliged to adduce evidence to the requisite standard to substantiate that assertion:-
The evidence upon which the Enforcement Authority rely comprises copy Penalty Charge Notice, extracts of governing Traffic Management Order provisions, and contemporaneous photographic evidence: CCTV footage and still frames taken there-from showing the said vehicle passing the applicable signs notifying motorists of the restriction.
4. The evidence adduced by the Enforcement Authority was examined to evaluate the allegation in conjunction with the Appellant's written and oral representations, and supporting documents.
I had the opportunity to assess and question the Appellant during the Hearing, I found her evidence to be cogent and credible, and I accepted it in its entirety.
The Appellant indicated that her arrival time at the School was aimed at being before the children attended; an explanation for non-receipt of other Penalty Charge Notices before the said vehicle was duly registered may be due to arrival before the restriction started.
I note that the clock counter on the contemporaneous recording demonstrates that the said vehicle comes into view 50 seconds after the restricted period commencement time.
I cannot be satisfied as to the accuracy of the camera time recorder, and I find a differential of less than one minute to be minimal, I therefore import the principle of de minimis.
Evidentially I am not satisfied that the contravention occurred, accordingly I allow this Appeal.

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218015398A
"This PCN was issued for the alleged contravention of being stopped in a restricted area outside a school when prohibited. The alleged contravention occurred in Clovelly Avenue at 4.14pm on 8 March 2018.

I have looked at the CCTV footage and also the site images submitted by the Council. These show that Mr Byanouni's vehicle was stopped on entrance markings in front of Colindale Primary School. They also show that there is a sign at the location warning motorists that there is no stopping on the entrance markings between 2.45pm and 4.15pm Mondays to Fridays.

Mr Byanouni appeals because he says that he stopped to pick up his children from school. He says that he is well aware of the restrictions and that the clock in his car showed the time of 4.15pm. The Council says that its clock is calibrated according to the Atomic Clock, ensuring 100% accuracy. The CCTV timing shows the vehicle stopping at 4:14:18.

I accept the evidence of Mr Byanouni that the clock in his car showed the time of 4.15pm. I find that the alleged contravention did not occur. There must be some application of common sense. Motorists cannot all be expected to wear time pieces calibrated to the exact second according to the Atomic Clock. A motorist reading an ordinary watch will not be able to know the time calculated to the exact second."

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Case Details
Case reference   2240392858
Appellant   Caroline Stone
Authority   London Borough of Newham
VRM   FR67FHB
   
PCN Details
PCN   PN63348648
Contravention date   24 Jun 2024
Contravention time   09:26:00
Contravention location   Samson Street / Old Street
Penalty amount   GBP 130.00
Contravention   Fail comply restriction vehicles entering ped zone
   
Referral date   -
   
Decision Date   16 Oct 2024
Adjudicator   Philippa Alderson
Appeal decision   Appeal allowed
Direction   cancel the Penalty Charge Notice and the Enforcement Notice.
1.   Reasons   The Appellant is appealing a PCN issued in respect of failing to comply with the restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone at the location.
2.   The Appellant attended the hearing by telephone.
3.   The Enforcement Authority relies upon footage of the incident, a copy of the PCN, a copy of the relevant legislation, location photographs and correspondence.
4.   The Appellant contends that she did not enter the street until after the restricted period had come to an end. She is very familiar with the location and tends to drive into the street at different times. She is a headteacher in the locality, and on the day in question, was going to a different school on business. She has told me that she is well aware of the restrictions at the location, and on many occasions, if the restrictions are still in force, she has parked in the adjoining road for a short time, before entering, to ensure that she is not in breach of them. On this particular occasion, she parked in the adjoining street - which she believes is called Old Street - as it was shortly before 9.30am. She was listening to BBC Radio 6 and waited until she heard the announcement that it was 9.30am, before driving into the street. This announcement corresponded with both the clock in her car and also her FitBit clock, which she looked at in order to double check the time. She therefore contends that the clock on the CCTV footage did not show the correct time on the day in question.
5.   I have carefully considered all the evidence in this matter, including the Appellant's oral evidence which I found to be credible and cogent.
6.   The footage relied upon by the EA shows the vehicle turning left into the street. The restriction signage appears unambiguous, prominent and unobscured.
7.   The EA contends in its Notice of Rejection that the cameras at the location are self-calibrating, and that, "they synchronise their times with a trusted time source (NPL/NTP)............ the units synchronise throughout the day multiple times, usually around 4 or 5 times". The NoR further states that the camera systems are certified as approved devices authorised by the Secretary of State. The Case Summary itself is not evidence, but a statement of the EA's position. The EA, despite being on notice that the Appellant was challenging the accuracy of the clock as set out on the CCTV footage, has not provided any detailed evidence in support of its contention that the CCTV clock was accurate at the relevant time.
8.   Having heard the detailed oral evidence of the Appellant today, and in the absence of any evidence relating to the synchronising of the clocks, I find it more likely than not that the Appellant drove into the street during unrestricted hours.
9.   I therefore allow this appeal.

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Case Details
Case reference   2240304850
Appellant   Samuels Electrical
Authority   London Borough of Lewisham
VRM   MK66WLZ
   
PCN Details
PCN   ZY06965107
Contravention date   10 Jun 2024
Contravention time   08:15:00
Contravention location   Leahurst Road J/W Fernbrook Crescent
Penalty amount   GBP 130.00
Contravention   Fail comply restriction vehicles entering ped zone
   
Referral date   -
   
Decision Date   02 Nov 2024
Adjudicator   Belinda Pearce
Appeal decision   Appeal allowed
Direction   cancel the Penalty Charge Notice and the Enforcement Notice.
Reasons   A Telephone Appeal Hearing was scheduled for 10 a.m. today, 2nd November 2024. I spoke with the Appellant Company's representative, the driver Mr J. Samuels, on the contact number provided.
1. The Enforcement Authority assert that the said vehicle, being of a class prohibited, was driven at a location at a time when restricted for use by pedestrians and vehicles of stated classes.
2. The Appellant Company denies liability for the ensuing Penalty Charge Notice on the basis of the prevailing circumstances/challenge as stated in Mr Samuels' written representations, which he reiterated and comprehensively detailed during the Hearing.
3. The Enforcement Authority who assert that the said vehicle was so driven contrary to an operative restriction is obliged to adduce evidence to the requisite standard to substantiate that assertion:-
The evidence upon which the Enforcement Authority rely comprises copy Penalty Charge Notice, extracts of governing Traffic Management Order provisions, and contemporaneous photographic evidence: CCTV footage and still frames taken there-from showing the said vehicle passing a single restrictive sign notifying motorists of the restriction.

The Enforcement Authority also adduce a map/plan with correlated undated images of signs: 2 advance notices comprising small roundels on blue information boards. These images are of limited, if any, evidential value since I know not if the signs were present and visible at the material time.

4. The evidence adduced by the Enforcement Authority was examined to evaluate the allegation in conjunction with Mr Samuels' written and oral representations.
The footage shows a solitary restrictive sign on the left hand side of the road; the blue backed information boards are also solitarily positioned, one on the left hand side of a road, the other on the right hand side of another road.
Mr Samuels' challenges the adequacy of the signage, since he contends that no advance notification was seen and the single restrictive sign was not discernible until the motorist was already passing it.
I had the opportunity to assess and question Mr Samuels at the Hearing, I found the Appellant's evidence to be cogent and credible, and I accept Mr Samuels' contention regarding the insufficiency of signage.
5. Further I note that the restricted period in question commences at 8.15 a.m. and that the said vehicle passes the sign, according to the camera clock, at 32 seconds past 8.15 a.m.
I know not the calibration quality of the clock counter on the contemporaneous recording; even after synchronization fluctuations/variations will occur.
I find a less than 1 minute variance to be minimal therefore I import the principle of de minimis.
Evidentially I am not satisfied that a contravention occurred, accordingly I allow this Appeal.

Sorry yes 74 seconds.

A few cases.

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Thank you, that’s really helpful to know  :)

Is there a template or any examples of suggested wording available here, for me to make an appropriate representation?

We don't do templates.

What type of watch have you got.

Why did you enter the zone.

Our member Hippo may have something else eg on website/camera issues but otherwise all you have is a good go at a timing issue you were well aware of. That it's a new restriction can be added in.


I have a standard wristwatch (analogue), nothing fancy. I remember glancing at it, as I find it more reliable than my car clock!!

I passed though the zone simply as I was heading over to the local supermarket to to get some groceries  :-[

The PCN alleges a contravention at 16.13 but at 16.13 your car was not even in shot. The PCN is required to state the contravention time it shows no contravention at the time stated. This was a long time old time winner hippo is very familiar with. If the council can be out by 47 seconds it hardly seems right they should expect you to be 100%