Author Topic: Redbridge PCN - Unloading tools on single yellow line  (Read 874 times)

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Redbridge PCN - Unloading tools on single yellow line
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Hi All,

My tiler received a PCN while he was parked outside my driveway (dropped kerb) on a single yellow as there was no other parking on the road, while he unloaded his tools.

His car is tinted so I guess it would be difficult for the warden to see the tools from the side or back and the tiler had closed the doors/boot each time he took the tools inside for obvious reason to avoid a passer by nicking something.

Shortly after the CEO attached the PCN, it started raining which drenched the PCN, we were unable to fully view it or even taken it out until a day later.

Only thing I can think of is me writing a letter as the home owner saying he was unloading his tools, which I believe is allowed on single yellow line and that he was doing a tiling job, not sure if that would be a solid ground for an appeal, we took a photo of his doors and boot open to show its loaded with tools - See link for photos, PCN etc https://imgur.com/a/9qd5NGQ

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Re: Redbridge PCN - Unloading tools on single yellow line
« Reply #1 on: »
You can submit an informal challenge to the PCN, but if it is refused, the owner of the vehicle has responsibility for paying or taking the matter forward via the Notice to Owner, (the next stage of the process).

Quite clearly the loading exemption applies and your or his reps should make this the main point of the reps, accompanied if necessary by photos of the tools.

Something on these lines:

Dear Sirs

Re PCN <PCN Number> dated <dd/mm/yyyy> served at <location>

I deny responsibility for the above PCN penalty on the grounds that the contravention did not occur. 

Loading is permitted during yellow line restricted hours, and I was unloading heavy workmens tools to the house of the resident prior to commencing work in the house. I attach photos of the tools that were being unloaded. Due to their size and weight, several journeys were necessary to convey the tools to the house. For understandable security reasons, the car was locked when I was taking each tranche of tools to the house.

I therefore request that the loading exemption be accepted and the PCN cancelled.

Yours sincerely

Re: Redbridge PCN - Unloading tools on single yellow line
« Reply #2 on: »
Of course he can run with 'unloading' and it might be accepted by the council. However, I suggest that an adjudicator would be more enquiring.

Several unloading trips, none of which coincided with the CEO's obs period and time taken to issue the PCN, or to prevent the PCN getting wet which is unlikely to have occurred instantly.


IMO, the driver needs more meat than that they were 'unloading' (immediately outside the house) and untimed photos.

Stop, unload then move is OK.
Stop, unload and leave parked while engaged in working in the house is not.

Only you and the driver actually know all the facts and so it's up to them how far they want to take matters with initially the discount in play but ultimately the full penalty.

Re: Redbridge PCN - Unloading tools on single yellow line
« Reply #3 on: »
Hi All

The unloading exemption may be the only one useable here, This wasn't a case of me or a family member parked for the sake of it and sat inside, as this happen a lot in many areas, this while it all depends on the council, shows a car with tool and the tiler unloading, so hoping that adds some weight. The inspectors in these boroughs seem to have a 0 minute observation on such contraventions, hence it takes them literally 30 seconds if that to snap, print, slap and go, while it takes the tiler around 2/3 minutes to take his tools upstairs set aside and come back down to do the next unload. A bit similar to when I was loading my car on a Disabled bay, literally went in for 1 minute to get next set of items, come out to a PCN with no CEO in visible sight - This was successfully appealed at NTO stage with the help of this forum :).

Not sure how I can prove the timing of the photos other than the timestamp on iphone, but again as HC Anderson stated in the wider picture  it may be of little benefit as it just proves we took a photo at that time, to us during consecutive unload but to the council doesn't literally matter as there is no way to prove the car was there for that period only or for the entire day (as the council would assume).

In respect to the wet ticket that we can discard, its dried and is viewable, so don' think we can use that as any grounds? It didn't rain instantly, while the UK weather does have a tendency to switch within seconds :), the tiler moved his car after unloading the tools, but decided to leave the PCN attached (maybe lazy), so when it rained later it became wet.

At this stage the tiler has nothing to lose, I said I'll assist him in teh appeal, but it is very likely the council will reject this and with the discount at play he may not want to go the full hog

Re: Redbridge PCN - Unloading tools on single yellow line
« Reply #4 on: »
It's the tiler's liability, assuming the vehicle isn't leased/hired..pl confirm.

Wouldn't it be better for them to post directly as this would ensure direct comms.

IMO, as a minimum and as they're a tradesman they need to show why they were there e.g. work log, invoice etc. Then simply tell the story. Unloading is an exemption, it is not an excuse or a request for a favour. So, if they were unloading, having regard to the conditions which apply, then that's it. However, absent hard and contemporaneous evidence it might come down to who an adjudicator believes.


Re: Redbridge PCN - Unloading tools on single yellow line
« Reply #5 on: »
It's the tiler's liability, assuming the vehicle isn't leased/hired..pl confirm.

It's his own personal car and I'll just assist him with submitting the online PCN rep process, all will be addresssed and from him, then after he gets a response upto him if he wants to take it further. He has a invoice his sent me a week after, not sure if that will assist the case as it wont have any refernce to the PCN date rather show work was carried out at the address

Re: Redbridge PCN - Unloading tools on single yellow line
« Reply #6 on: »
Don't make the mistake of thinking that the CEO, and therefore the authority, know anything more than:

Unknown car on yellow line when waiting not permitted. That's it.

They don't know it belongs to a tradesman who was carrying out work in an adjacent property or anything else. Let's be honest, it's not your typical tradesman's van, is it!

As the CEO didn't see any unloading it follows that all the driver's info is circumstantial, but forms part of the picture. Don't leave anything out. Put a draft here first.

Remember, the 14-day discount and risk-free reps period ends tomorrow, 13th.




Re: Redbridge PCN - Unloading tools on single yellow line
« Reply #7 on: »
Totally agree, for the CEO in all honesty I can see why he put a ticket, as it's a normal car and not his duty to inspect inside the windows etc.

Oh totally forgot we're on the last day or two, so will look to get a appeal in by in by today, draft I'll use is the one provided by Incandsent in this thread, but will include one additional line as follows

"Please also find attached an invoice provided to the resident at property, to confirm the work carried out during the week in relation to the unloading of the tools."


Re: Redbridge PCN - Unloading tools on single yellow line
« Reply #8 on: »
a 1 minute observation time?
Quote from: andy_foster
Mick, you are a very, very bad man

Re: Redbridge PCN - Unloading tools on single yellow line
« Reply #9 on: »
a 1 minute observation time?

According to their parking policy on page 5 for single yellow its no observation required, ie 0 minutes or instant ticket from what it seems to suggest - https://www.redbridge.gov.uk/media/11362/parking-enforcement-policy.pdf

Re: Redbridge PCN - Unloading tools on single yellow line
« Reply #10 on: »
they say they are "fair" in their enforcement.
they site loading/unloading as a "common exemption"
but state No observation time.
how can they determine loading/unloading activity with zero observation?
the same could be said for assited boarding/alighting.
hardly fair in my view.
Quote from: andy_foster
Mick, you are a very, very bad man

Re: Redbridge PCN - Unloading tools on single yellow line
« Reply #11 on: »
OP, the 14-day period ends today.

Pl post a draft or whatever, but stay focused.

Re: Redbridge PCN - Unloading tools on single yellow line
« Reply #12 on: »
OP, the 14-day period ends today.

Pl post a draft or whatever, but stay focused.

See draft below, looking to submit today but would the 14th day not be 16th if the ticket was given on teh 2nd?

Dear Sirs

Re PCN <PCN Number> dated <dd/mm/yyyy> served at <location>

I deny responsibility for the above PCN penalty on the grounds that the contravention did not occur.

Loading is permitted during yellow line restricted hours, and I was unloading heavy workmens tools to the house of the resident prior to commencing work in the house. I attach photos of the tools that were being unloaded. Due to their size and weight, several journeys were necessary to convey the tools to the house. For understandable security reasons, the car was locked when I was taking each tranche of tools to the house.

Please also find attached an invoice provided to the resident of the house after the completion of the job, to confirm the work carried out during the week where unloading of the tools was taking place and the PCN issued,

I therefore request that the loading exemption be accepted and the PCN cancelled.

Yours sincerely

Re: Redbridge PCN - Unloading tools on single yellow line
« Reply #13 on: »
Quote
See draft below, looking to submit today but would the 14th day not be 16th if the ticket was given on teh 2nd?

See the PCN

14 days beginning with the date on which the PCN was served - i.e. affixed to the vehicle - which makes 2nd = day 1 of the 14 days.

For postal PCNs the date of service is two working days after date of posting.


Re: Redbridge PCN - Unloading tools on single yellow line
« Reply #14 on: »
which makes 2nd = day 1 of the 14 days.

Correct, so today will be the 11th day and tomorrow the 12th, thus making the final date to appeal as the 15th - or am i getting the calculations wrong :O