Author Topic: Redbridge PCN - 31j - Entering and stopping in a yellow box junction when prohibited (camera enforcement)  (Read 665 times)

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Good afternoon

I hope you are all well.

My daughter has just received the PCN below, I have had a look at the video and she only entered the box as the way was clear ahead however she did not go all the way through for some reason - have not had a chance to ask yet.  The fact that only her back wheels were in the box for a few seconds.  Worth appealing on these grounds?  Thanks



« Last Edit: January 04, 2025, 04:28:05 pm by fox10 »

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This isn't a contravention as there was indeed space to clear ahead. We see these allowed at the tribunal should Redbridge - one that does push things there - refuse representations.


100% - don't be tempted to pay this, there is no contravention here.

Thanks, I will submit an appeal.

Hi everyone,

I submitted an appeal - please see text below but Redbridge have rejected it already and sent the following letter - please advise.  Thanks

Dear Sir/Madam, I am writing to formally appeal against the issuance of PCN AF30325618, issued for an alleged contravention 31J (entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited). I believe that no contravention occurred, and I request that the penalty charge notice be reviewed and canceled for the following reasons. The vehicle entered the box junction only when the exit was sufficiently clear for the vehicle’s full length to proceed without obstruction. This is consistent with the legal requirements for entering a box junction, as per the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016. Having reviewed the circumstances, I assert that: 1. The vehicle did not stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles. 2. Sufficient space was available beyond the junction at the time the vehicle entered, enabling it to proceed fully. 3. The alleged contravention may have been incorrectly identified due to the angle of the camera or a misinterpretation of the footage. Numerous tribunal decisions have upheld that a contravention does not occur if the vehicle enters a box junction when there is clear and adequate space to exit. Based on this precedent and the specific facts of this case, I kindly request that the PCN be cancelled. Should this matter proceed further, I am prepared to present these details at an independent tribunal. Best regards




That isn't a contravention as she didn't stop due to a stationary vehicle but because you decided to stop early to 'admire the view' as one decision has it (or read a book or light her pipe).

Happy to be the free representative.

Email mrmustard@zoho.com if required.
I help you pro bono (for free). I now ask that a £40 donation is made to the North London Hospice before I take over your case. I have an 85% success rate across 2,000 PCNs but some PCNs can't be beaten and I will tell you if your case looks hopeless before asking you to donate.
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I suggest you take Mr mustards offer.
Quote from: andy_foster
Mick, you are a very, very bad man
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Some good news which the OP will read here first as I haven't emailed him directly yet.

I started the Appeal on 20 January 2025 on the simple grounds that there was no contravention which I illustrated by images of the traffic position on entering and the position on stopping.

It was scheduled for a Teams video hearing on Wednesday 12 March.

In the run up to the hearing I check the portal to see if evidence has been filed and instead found this morning that there had been a decision which could only be a 'do not contest' by the council.

I double checked the Redbridge website and that says the notice is cancelled.

The official decision will reach me in a day or two.
I help you pro bono (for free). I now ask that a £40 donation is made to the North London Hospice before I take over your case. I have an 85% success rate across 2,000 PCNs but some PCNs can't be beaten and I will tell you if your case looks hopeless before asking you to donate.

Congratulations. Regarding your quote: "admire the view' as one decision has it (or read a book or light her pipe)., which was the reason?  Also, on a serious note, could I have these decisions please. I think there is also one which mentions stopping to eat a bar of chocolate?
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Also one where the owner's daughter stopped in the box junction to change the station on the car radio.


Examples of adjudicators ruling that drivers did not stop due to stationary vehicles
Case ref
Appellant
Authority
Date & time
Location
Decision Date
Adjudicator
Decision
2230553462
Jack Noble
London Borough of Waltham Forest
27 Oct 2023 15:38:00
Lea Bridge Road / Argall Way
24 Jan 2024
Andrew Harman
Appeal allowed
Mr Murray-Smith, for the appellant, attended the hearing today via telephone. The council did not do so either via telephone or in person. The contravention alleged in these proceedings was that this vehicle entered and stopped in a box junction when prohibited. I was atisfied on the basis of Mr Murray-Smith's submissions as set out in his skeleton argument of 26/12/23 uploaded to the case on that date, to which the council had not responded, that this vehicle in stopping as it did on box junction markings stopped short. It did not I found do so due to the presence of stationery vehicles. I was accordingly satisfied that the contravention had not occurred. The appeal was allowed without consideration of any other issue raised by either party to the proceedings.



Case ref
Appellant
Authority
Date & time
Location
Decision Date
Adjudicator
Decision
2160252038
alan branch
London Borough of Waltham Forest
24 Apr 2016 16:44:00
Hall Lane/Albert Crescent
11 Jul 2016
Gerald Styles
Appeal allowed
​​The Council did not send a representative.

The appellant brought with him a freehand sketch in plan to explain and support his argument that the driver could have cleared the box without stopping for the 12 or so seconds recorded. I have retained this and accepted the measurements as shown.

The appellant's daughter Rebecca is shown driving on the clip. I understood she had passed her test two years ago. I have accepted that she could have cleared the box without stopping within it. In the event the rear wheels straddled the far perimeter.

She may through inexperience have misjudged the length of her father's car but I do not incline to allow an appeal of this type on that account. An obvious feature of the evidence was that when she stopped, that she did so for the purpose of adjusting controls on her music. I was inclined to be very critical of her taking her eyes off the road as she did and when she chose to do that. I did however conclude there was insufficient evidence to support this particular penalty charge as I could not attribute the reason for stopping as being essentially the presence of stationary vehicles, as opposed to preoccupation with what was playing music. I have recorded the appeal as allowed.

IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r