Author Topic: Redbridge PCN - entered a pedestrian zone - Sydney Road  (Read 1452 times)

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Redbridge PCN - entered a pedestrian zone - Sydney Road
« on: »
Same location as paulc156 and as previously appealed by shah123.

I turned left on this occasion into Sydney road. Completely missed the signage, realised later this was just because of the height and positioning.

PCN & images from council - https://imgchest.com/p/wl7lavg9oyx

Any advice appreciated. Thank you!

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Re: Redbridge PCN - entered a pedestrian zone - Sydney Road
« Reply #1 on: »
The height of these signs is really quite unbelievable. There has to be doubt whether a motorist can even read the text below the Flying Motorbike sign.  The text must be getting on for 3 metres above pavement level. This really needs to be presented to an adjudicator. For me these signs totally fail the adequacy test on height alone !

Re: Redbridge PCN - entered a pedestrian zone - Sydney Road
« Reply #2 on: »
There is a fair chance of winning on the hight of the signage rendering it unreadable

Re: Redbridge PCN - entered a pedestrian zone - Sydney Road
« Reply #3 on: »
Should I go with a very simple informal representation then, as follows?

'The height of the signs that I passed marking the start of the pedestrian zone are excessively high and the positioning irregular. It is highly unlikely that a motorist turning off the high road onto this street would be able to read them. This was the case for myself when I turned into the side street - I did not even notice the signs due to their excessive height. Thus, I would ask that you cancel this PCN and also conduct a full review into the height and positioning of these signs.'

Re: Redbridge PCN - entered a pedestrian zone - Sydney Road
« Reply #4 on: »
Should I go with a very simple informal representation then, as follows?

'The height of the signs that I passed marking the start of the pedestrian zone are excessively high and the positioning irregular. It is highly unlikely that a motorist turning off the high road onto this street would be able to read them. This was the case for myself when I turned into the side street - I did not even notice the signs due to their excessive height. Thus, I would ask that you cancel this PCN and also conduct a full review into the height and positioning of these signs.'
Seems OK to me. Anything else we should be aware of ? Have you looked at their video ?

Re: Redbridge PCN - entered a pedestrian zone - Sydney Road
« Reply #5 on: »
I seriously advise using the information in my first link in my profile as the PCN is invalid since it is missing mandatory information.
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Re: Redbridge PCN - entered a pedestrian zone - Sydney Road
« Reply #6 on: »

Re: Redbridge PCN - entered a pedestrian zone - Sydney Road
« Reply #7 on: »
@Hippocrates I will take a look thank you!

Re: Redbridge PCN - entered a pedestrian zone - Sydney Road
« Reply #8 on: »
IMO, the adequacy of signage refers to the totality of signage, not just the entry signs. OP, are there any advance signs warning of this restriction?

Re: Redbridge PCN - entered a pedestrian zone - Sydney Road
« Reply #9 on: »
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Re: Redbridge PCN - entered a pedestrian zone - Sydney Road
« Reply #10 on: »
I went back to check this actually, there is an advance warning sign, placed equally high. You would not see it unless you were looking up for it. Got to also be 3-4m height.

Re: Redbridge PCN - entered a pedestrian zone - Sydney Road
« Reply #11 on: »
I seriously advise using the information in my first link in my profile as the PCN is invalid since it is missing mandatory information.

Forgive me if I am being daft but I am struggling to see the issue with the PCN. Is it just the usage of 'or' in the sentence referencing the  potential for an increased charge?

Re: Redbridge PCN - entered a pedestrian zone - Sydney Road
« Reply #12 on: »
I make this collateral challenge against the validity of the PCN as it is missing mandatory information as provided at Para. 4 (8 ) (v) of


https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/section/4/enacted

(v)that, if the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the 28 day period, an increased

charge may be payable.


Clearly, this refers to Para. 4 (8 ) (iii):

(iii)that the penalty charge must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning

with the date of the notice;


Therefore, it follows that the statement: "If you fail to pay the Penalty Charge or make representations before the end of a period of 28 days beginning with the date of service of this notice an increased charge of £240 may be payable” adds to the lack of clarity by its omission. Even on its own, whether the required information was included or not, it is also arguable that it conflates the two periods using the word "or" which many would view as being conjunctive. Furthermore, even if the statement were to be interpreted disjunctively, there is still no clarity due to the missing information. So, it follows that it cannot possibly be interpreted disjunctively.


******************

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WSBVHktf6Yu3twJANacn8mmlTQKt1-t_/view


A third point is set out in the skeleton argument:

“The PCN - This fails to contain mandatory information at Part 2 Para. 4(8 )(v) provided at:
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/section/4/enacted (v)that, if the penalty charge is not paid before the
end of the 28 day period, an increased charge may be payable This in turn refers to (iii)

(iii)that the penalty charge must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of the notice; The
following statement does not clarify this: If after the last day of the period of 28 days beginning with the date on
which this PCN is served no such representations have been made, and the penalty charge has not been paid,
we may increase the penalty charge by 50% to £195.00 and may take steps to enforce payment of the
increased charge.”

The difference between date of the notice and the date of service is not necessarily the same. That could lead
to miscalculation of the relevant period that the recipient has in which to make payment or submit
representations, which could be crucial. The collateral challenge on this point succeeds and so I allow the
appeal.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2025, 10:01:07 am by Hippocrates »
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Re: Redbridge PCN - entered a pedestrian zone - Sydney Road
« Reply #13 on: »
Ah, I see, it's about date of notice vs date of service of the notice! Thank you.

Re: Redbridge PCN - entered a pedestrian zone - Sydney Road
« Reply #14 on: »
Redbridge fobbed me off and said that their signage complies will all relevant statutory requirements :(

London Tribunals appeal hearing scheduled for June next year!