Author Topic: Newham 12 - Parked in shared usage bay without valid permit, Albert Road North Woolwich  (Read 307 times)

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cp8759

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Thanks gents, so to be clear, there is presumably no legal basis by which vehicles can be issued with a PCN or removed from this road purely for being in contravention of the purported control?? Is there any alternative legal mechanism they could claim to be exercising this power under?
If the traffic order doesn't exist then it doesn't exist. In the past where councils have rejected representations despite the lack of a traffic order being raised in the formal representations, the tribunal has held this to be wholly unreasonable and has made a costs order against the council.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

ticketed_off

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From some research (thanks CP for info on how to search the Gazette) it seems they at least gave notice that they had made an order on 15 May 2017 - https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/2785273 that would seem to cover the area in question, but I am unable to find the full text of the order anywhere online. Still no reply to my reps.

cp8759

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I'll get hold of the orders mentioned in that gazette announcement.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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ticketed_off

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Today is, by my count, the 56th day since I submitted these informal reps. I have not yet received anything except the confirmation e-mail (which promised a response within 56 days), or anything in the post. The confirmation email stated the below which implied a 56 day turnaround even in the case of informal reps:

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Thank you for your representation, which has been allocated to the above Penalty Charge Notice. The case is now on hold until a response is sent to you either by email (if an email address has been provided) or by post.

Where a PCN is issued under the Traffic Management Act (TMA) 2004, the council will respond to your challenge within 56 days of the date it was received.

If you challenge your penalty charge notice within 14 days from the date of service of the notice, known as an informal challenge, where the notice was placed on the vehicle or handed to the driver. Then it will then be held at the reduced rate and a further 14 days will be given, from the date of our correspondence, to pay at the reduced rate if your challenge is not accepted.

Any PCNs issued by a camera, such as bus lanes, no entry restrictions, motor vehicle restriction zones, pedestrian zones in pursuant to the Road Traffic Regulations Act 1984 (as amended), London Local Authorities 1996 and Transport for London Act 2003 will be responded to as soon as possible. There is no corresponding provision within the Acts relating to bus lane and moving traffic contraventions which require that an Enforcement Authority must respond within a statutory time limit.

As today is a Public Holiday I am not expecting to receive anything (although not entirely ruling it out).

I am trying to decide whether they have just decided to accept the reps and not engage with me any further, or whether I should expect to hear something out of time (as I understand the 56 days isnt a hard limit?). Would it be possible they have done the former or would they always send a letter of rejection, even to informal reps?

Edit: I have reviewed the PCN online and it shows the below under 'View PCN':

« Last Edit: May 27, 2024, 03:12:15 pm by ticketed_off »
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Incandescent

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The 56 days is a limit for a council to respond to formal reps against a postal PCN, or a Notice to Owner, both issued under the Traffic Management Act 2004. A postal PCN is essentially also an NtO, because it is sent to the name and address on the V5 for the vehicle.

cp8759

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Result, they must have realised the traffic order doesn't exist!
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

ticketed_off

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Result, they must have realised the traffic order doesn't exist!

Fingers crossed! Absent any letter I'm not sure yet if it's set to 0.00 as it's on hold, or has just been cancelled. I wouldn't have thought they'd set it to 0 during informal reps in case someone had a change of heart and wanted to pay?

As ever will update you all when I hear more. Thanks so much for all the help so far.

If you can post or send any response to the orders you requested if you get one that'd be much appreciated - not least for my own interest!
« Last Edit: May 28, 2024, 01:32:33 pm by ticketed_off »

cp8759

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Fingers crossed! Absent any letter I'm not sure yet if it's set to 0.00 as it's on hold, or has just been cancelled. I wouldn't have thought they'd set it to 0 during informal reps in case someone had a change of heart and wanted to pay?
No, if someone pays while a challenge is outstanding they throw the challenge in the bin and laugh all the way to the bank.

If you can post or send any response to the orders you requested if you get one that'd be much appreciated - not least for my own interest!
Sure thing.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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cp8759

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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order