Author Topic: Redbridge 33J using route restricted to certain vehicles  (Read 221 times)

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samislango

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Redbridge 33J using route restricted to certain vehicles
« on: February 07, 2024, 11:40:39 am »
Asking on the off chance this is worth challenging.


Somehow missed the signage and drove into the restricted road.

https://ibb.co/gWhrgfw
https://ibb.co/SDj7fr1
https://ibb.co/mzQRsrM

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cp8759

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Re: Redbridge 33J using route restricted to certain vehicles
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2024, 01:28:56 pm »
@samislango your first link doesn't work so I can't see the PCN, please read this and post the PCN. The signage certainly doesn't look adequate.
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative councillor, this means some people think I am "scum". I am not a lawyer.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

samislango

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Re: Redbridge 33J using route restricted to certain vehicles
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2024, 01:37:45 pm »
https://ibb.co/album/K0qgSP

Hi, I was previously anjumanji on the other site. This is the link to the album.

« Last Edit: February 11, 2024, 01:46:06 pm by samislango »

Hippocrates

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Re: Redbridge 33J using route restricted to certain vehicles
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2024, 02:05:25 pm »
https://ibb.co/sg0MYKz

From the other site.  The taken without consent ground limits to theft.

The TWOC ground clearly limits to theft and therefore does not correctly express the statutory ground because a relative or friend may have taken the vehicle without consent, which does not necessitate an obligation to report such circumstance to the Police or, indeed, make an insurance claim.


Other point:  foliage as per Schofeldt.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2024, 02:07:46 pm by Hippocrates »
There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply in view of some adjudicators' lack of knowing what they ought to know.

"Hippocrates"

samislango

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Re: Redbridge 33J using route restricted to certain vehicles
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2024, 02:05:59 pm »
6 Chadwick Rd
https://maps.app.goo.gl/NQShsRkK1HNUZ5Pg8

Street View of location

Hippocrates

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Re: Redbridge 33J using route restricted to certain vehicles
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2024, 02:08:49 pm »
@cp8759: legal necessity for an arrow on the road to turn left?  Right.  Sorry!
« Last Edit: February 11, 2024, 02:29:50 pm by Hippocrates »
There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply in view of some adjudicators' lack of knowing what they ought to know.

"Hippocrates"

cp8759

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Re: Redbridge 33J using route restricted to certain vehicles
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2024, 02:22:24 pm »
I don't think that's a legal necessity, it's a question of whether the signage is adequate.

@samislango please can you give us the PCN number? Also are you able to go and check if the no left turn sign is still visible?
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative councillor, this means some people think I am "scum". I am not a lawyer.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

samislango

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Re: Redbridge 33J using route restricted to certain vehicles
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2024, 02:25:38 pm »
I don't think that's a legal necessity, it's a question of whether the signage is adequate.

@samislango please can you give us the PCN number? Also are you able to go and check if the no left turn sign is still visible?

It's visible on the cctv pictures provided. It's the first picture in my album with the red circle.

PCN AF9814008A

Hippocrates

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Re: Redbridge 33J using route restricted to certain vehicles
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2024, 02:32:24 pm »
The problem here is the no left hand turn was passed too.
There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply in view of some adjudicators' lack of knowing what they ought to know.

"Hippocrates"

samislango

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Re: Redbridge 33J using route restricted to certain vehicles
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2024, 02:36:02 pm »
I'm happy to pay it and take advantage of the discount if contesting it will be tricky.


Hippocrates

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Re: Redbridge 33J using route restricted to certain vehicles
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2024, 02:39:56 pm »
I advise making representations re the foliage and the technical argument to test their reply.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2024, 03:00:13 pm by Hippocrates »
There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply in view of some adjudicators' lack of knowing what they ought to know.

"Hippocrates"

samislango

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Re: Redbridge 33J using route restricted to certain vehicles
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2024, 02:42:13 pm »
Ok, I'll do that today. Thanks

Hippocrates

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Re: Redbridge 33J using route restricted to certain vehicles
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2024, 02:54:18 pm »
Ok, I'll do that today. Thanks

Wait on:  draft here first please. PM sent.  I will suggest one shortly.

Dear Sirs

Ref:  PCN

      VRM

I make these formal representations against the issue of the PCN:

1. The signage was unclear as it was covered with foliage.

2. If there had been an arrow on the road instructing me to turn right, this would have been more effective.

3. I bring a collateral challenge on the basis that the PCN is unenforceable because the taken without consent ground clearly fetters to theft by its very wording that a crime report be provided. Therefore, this inaccurate reflection of the statutory ground does not take into account that a relative, or friend, may have taken the vehicle without the owner's permission so that the owner would not necessarily, if at all, report the matter to the Police in such circumstances or, indeed, make an insurance claim.

4.  I also challenge that the PCN, to my mind, conflates the periods of payment and making representations.

Therefore, in light of the above, please cancel the PCN.

Yours faithfully

Name (Registered keeper)

Address

************************

cp may well not agree with the last point;  but, let's see what they say!  The TWOC ground has more weight
« Last Edit: February 11, 2024, 03:07:31 pm by Hippocrates »
There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply in view of some adjudicators' lack of knowing what they ought to know.

"Hippocrates"

samislango

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Re: Redbridge 33J using route restricted to certain vehicles
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2024, 03:27:55 pm »
I did start drafting an appeal but I see you've kindly done one that reads much better than my effort!

I'll furnish the details and will send today.

I'll post up on the other site too unless you've already done it.

samislango

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Re: Redbridge 33J using route restricted to certain vehicles
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2024, 03:45:14 pm »
I'm attempting to complete the online form as referenced on the PCN ( www.redbridge.gov.uk/parkingPCN ) but am struggling to find it on the council site. I only get the option to pay.

Scrap that, I managed to find it and have sent the representations.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2024, 03:56:54 pm by samislango »