3. RE: Contravention 53j - Hazelbank Road
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RE: Contravention 53j - Hazelbank Road
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Hi there, please could I get assistance on the below..it was a temporary light which I alleged to have passed when the light was red.  I would like to appeal, any help would be greatly appreciated.




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Re: RE: Contravention 53j - Hazelbank Road
« Reply #1 on: »
Hi, is there anyone that can help on this please?
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Re: RE: Contravention 53j - Hazelbank Road
« Reply #2 on: »
Quote from: Aubama on June 15, 2024, 07:07:04 pm
Hi, is there anyone that can help on this please?
So what makes you think it is all about passing a red traffic light ? The contravention on the PCN is for entering a pedestrian zone.  This means you have, in all likelihood, passed a "Flying Motorbike" sign that indicates No Entry for Motor Vehicles.
Also only the police can enforce the offence of passing a red traffic light.

A look a GSV 2022, shows no signs so this must be a fairly recent restriction. Best if you download the video and post it here. The video is their sole evidence of the contravention. The photos on the PCN are extracts from it.
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Re: RE: Contravention 53j - Hazelbank Road
« Reply #3 on: »
@Aubama please read the guidance here: https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/

Once you've read that in full, please re-post the PCN without redacting the PCN number or the number plate and I'll post the video for you.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: RE: Contravention 53j - Hazelbank Road
« Reply #4 on: »
Thanks @cp8759

Hi all, please find the correct info below.








location on google maps: https://maps.app.goo.gl/6rJUUTBNYWNyrsxi6
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Re: RE: Contravention 53j - Hazelbank Road
« Reply #5 on: »
Here is the location, and unfortunately, GSV is dated September 2022, and the restriction is not in place.
So, Aubama, you need to do some legwork to get photos of the signs so we can assess their positioning and adequacy.

You could also obtain their video, and post it here. This is the sole evidence of the alleged contravention.
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Re: RE: Contravention 53j - Hazelbank Road
« Reply #6 on: »
I've just driven to the road and the temporary lights are no longer there.  Also the letter Ive posted says that there should be 'photographs and CCTV footage of the contravention'.  There are only photographs.

Ive also tried calling the number on the letter, but nobody is answering despite me being number 1 in the queue.

Is there something else I should be doing to obtain the CCTV footage or should I continue trying to call them?

Thanks
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Re: RE: Contravention 53j - Hazelbank Road
« Reply #7 on: »
We need to see photos of of the location.  The council have no powers to enforce temporary traffic lights, it is a police matter.
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Re: RE: Contravention 53j - Hazelbank Road
« Reply #8 on: »
Quote from: Incandescent on June 21, 2024, 12:34:35 pm
We need to see photos of of the location.  The council have no powers to enforce temporary traffic lights, it is a police matter.

@Incandescent  I'm not sure where the red lights come into it?

According to https://lewisham.gov.uk/myservices/parking/schoolstreets/schools-streets-programme-streets-outside-schools

Hazelbank Road (part) is a School Street at the time of the PCN:

Quote
Torridon Primary School

enforced by ANPR CCTV

 Hazelbank Road, Torridon Road and Bellingham Road Hazelbank Road from junction of Ardgowan Road to the junction of Birkhall Road,
Bellingham Road from the junction with Birkhall Road to the junction with Penderry Rise,
Torridon Road from the junction with Hazelbank Road to the junction with Ardoch Road,
Birkhall Road from the junction with Hazelbank Road to the junction with Ardoch Road
Monday-Friday 8.15-9.15am and 2.45- 3.45 pm


and
Quote
How does the School Streets scheme work?

    the street directly outside a school will have measures introduced to significantly reduce the volume of traffic when children are arriving in the morning and leaving in the afternoon
    the street will become a pedestrian and cycle zone at these set times
    motorised vehicles will not be allowed to enter the street between these times unless they have been granted an exemption. Exemptions will be kept to an absolute minimum to improve road safety for everyone in the vicinity of the school gates
    the school streets will be in operation in term time only. Term time dates


So, from the entrance to this junction:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/N7SWStT6DGmpPDPK7
including side-road
across the next jubction:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/N7SWStT6DGmpPDPK7
including side road and
as far as the exit to the next junction (including side-road).

So, Aubama, what signage is in place?
« Last Edit: June 21, 2024, 01:37:02 pm by John U.K. »
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Re: RE: Contravention 53j - Hazelbank Road
« Reply #9 on: »
Hi, I thought this was for the temporary lights that were there.  But I now realise its for driving on this road during school hours.  Below are some pics Ive just taken of the signage.



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Re: RE: Contravention 53j - Hazelbank Road
« Reply #10 on: »
@Aubama the PCN is dated 7 May and the council website says this:



This suggests you made a representation and the council rejected it, is that correct?

If it is, please show us what you sent and the notice of rejection.

If not, I'd suggest you make a representation right now just saying that the contravention did not occur, you're past the 28 day period to make representations but the fact that no charge certificate will be issued before July suggests they would still consider representations made before then.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: RE: Contravention 53j - Hazelbank Road
« Reply #11 on: »
Quote from: John U.K. on June 21, 2024, 01:24:53 pm
Quote from: Incandescent on June 21, 2024, 12:34:35 pm
We need to see photos of of the location.  The council have no powers to enforce temporary traffic lights, it is a police matter.

@Incandescent  I'm not sure where the red lights come into it?

According to https://lewisham.gov.uk/myservices/parking/schoolstreets/schools-streets-programme-streets-outside-schools

Hazelbank Road (part) is a School Street at the time of the PCN:

Quote
Torridon Primary School

enforced by ANPR CCTV

 Hazelbank Road, Torridon Road and Bellingham Road Hazelbank Road from junction of Ardgowan Road to the junction of Birkhall Road,
Bellingham Road from the junction with Birkhall Road to the junction with Penderry Rise,
Torridon Road from the junction with Hazelbank Road to the junction with Ardoch Road,
Birkhall Road from the junction with Hazelbank Road to the junction with Ardoch Road
Monday-Friday 8.15-9.15am and 2.45- 3.45 pm


and
Quote
How does the School Streets scheme work?

    the street directly outside a school will have measures introduced to significantly reduce the volume of traffic when children are arriving in the morning and leaving in the afternoon
    the street will become a pedestrian and cycle zone at these set times
    motorised vehicles will not be allowed to enter the street between these times unless they have been granted an exemption. Exemptions will be kept to an absolute minimum to improve road safety for everyone in the vicinity of the school gates
    the school streets will be in operation in term time only. Term time dates


So, from the entrance to this junction:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/N7SWStT6DGmpPDPK7
including side-road
across the next jubction:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/N7SWStT6DGmpPDPK7
including side road and
as far as the exit to the next junction (including side-road).

So, Aubama, what signage is in place?
The OP's original narrative referred to passing a red light, which I then advised was not what the PCN was issued for.
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Re: RE: Contravention 53j - Hazelbank Road
« Reply #12 on: »
6Limitation on service of penalty charge notice
(1)Subject to the provisions of this section, no penalty charge notice may be served under this Act after the expiry of the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the alleged contravention or failure to comply occurred.

Date of contravention: 7 May

Date of issue of PCN: Fri. 31 May.

Date of Service: 4 June.

= 29 days = out of time

?
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Re: RE: Contravention 53j - Hazelbank Road
« Reply #13 on: »
Quote from: cp8759 on June 21, 2024, 05:51:58 pm
@Aubama the PCN is dated 7 May and the council website says this:



This suggests you made a representation and the council rejected it, is that correct?

If it is, please show us what you sent and the notice of rejection.

If not, I'd suggest you make a representation right now just saying that the contravention did not occur, you're past the 28 day period to make representations but the fact that no charge certificate will be issued before July suggests they would still consider representations made before then.

Hi, Ive only just made representation now, please see below



Thanks
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Re: RE: Contravention 53j - Hazelbank Road
« Reply #14 on: »
Good, it now says this:



There is still a risk they might issue a charge certificate, but I would expect them not to based on the above.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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