Author Topic: RB Kingston-on-Thames, Failing to comply with a prohibition, Crescent Road Kingston (Kingston Hill)  (Read 1263 times)

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I was issued with a PCN on 29th October, for driving down Crescent Road from Kingston Hill. I've discovered that the one way restriction has only recently been introduced, with an Experimental Traffic Management Order in place until recently. There has been much opposition to this and there is now a petition against it.

https://www.kingstonconservatives.com/news/kingston-council-****-sees-crescent-road-penalty-charges-cancelled-no-entry-restrictions

Are there reasonable grounds for me to appeal this?
 - I wasn't aware the restriction was in place
 - I didn't see the restriction signs, if I had seen them I wouldn't have driven down there.
 - There are a lot of signs on the restriction, making it very hard to digest and assimilate (big blue 'this way' arrow is much more prominent). There is also a width restriction at this point which again attracts the focus of the driver, rather than the small 'no cars' sign.

PCN details - https://photos.app.goo.gl/Ny6Qq5z6CGr3jU4u8

Photo of our car approaching the restriction (there are also other photos and a video of our car going through the restriction)
https://photos.app.goo.gl/eyY3LfquJAhsJBf38
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ohSGeY8XJSazsUef9
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Ny6Qq5z6CGr3jU4u8


Restriction is at this location, but Google street view doesn't show it as it was only recently installed - https://maps.app.goo.gl/Fd88VsT9bNtTLk6t5

Any help or advice much appreciated

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I'll take  a look tomorrow. Meanwhile I have a novel technical argument re the PCN missing mandatory information.
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Hi,
Just checking, were you able to take a look at this please?  :)
Many thanks

I will have to do this tomorrow or Thursday as I have three cases tomorrow.
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

I make these formal representations against the PCN:

1. Signage

Proceeding down Crescent Road from Kingston Hill one is presented with a plurality of signs and with no warning signage at all.  The keep left sign is stark and clearly takes precedence in terms of size and meaning. Indeed, there is a no right sign as one approaches from the road on the right so this begs the question of fairness in this regard.

2.  Collateral challenge re the PCN

I make this collateral challenge against the validity of the PCN as it is missing mandatory information as provided at
Para. 4 (8 ) (v) of

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/section/4/enacted

Clearly, this refers to 4(8 )(iii):

(iii)that the penalty charge must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of the notice;

Therefore, it follows that the statement: If you fail to pay the Penalty Charge or make  representations before the end of a period of 28 days beginning with the date of service of this notice an increased charge of £240 may be payable. adds to the lack of clarity by its omission. Even on its own, whether the required information was included or not, it is also arguable that it conflates the two periods using the word "or" which many would view as being conjunctive. Furthermore, even if the statement were to be interpreted disjunctively, there is still no clarity due to the missing information


I rely upon the Hackney Drivers High Court case in terms of the clarity required for a PCN to be substantially complaint.

Considering the above, please cancel the PCN.

*******************

Please check that my template above tallies with the wording on your PCN.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2025, 08:03:15 pm by Hippocrates »
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Many thanks for this detailed reply - really helpful!

On their form for making representations, I have to tick any of these that apply (I have to tick at least one). Which would you recommend? I'm asking as I don't want to tick something that then invalidates the comments that will follow. 3 & 4?

1- At the time of the alleged contravention the vehicle was in the control of someone without my consent

2- I was not the owner at the material time

3- The contravention did not occur

4- The penalty exceeded the amount applicable in the circumstances of the case

5- We are a hire firm and have supplied the name of the hirer

Signage: 3

Collateral challenge: 4. I am choosing this ground as procedural impropriety is not a ground afforded in this legislation.

So, both.

Put it all into a pdf
« Last Edit: November 06, 2025, 01:49:15 pm by Hippocrates »
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Hi Stueyb,
I’ve just been hit with the same PCN. Can I please enquire as to your success with appealing the charge? Grateful to Hippocrates for the information provided to aid the appeal.
Many thanks.

Hi Stueyb,
I’ve just been hit with the same PCN. Can I please enquire as to your success with appealing the charge? Grateful to Hippocrates for the information provided to aid the appeal.
Many thanks.


Welcome to FTLA.  For meaningful advice in your own case please have a read of
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/

and start your own thread with a brief account of the circumstances,

posting up there
(use
ibb.co or https://imgpile.com/
for posting images.
Wherever possible, use the BBCode.)

all sides of the  PCN (only redact yr name & address - leave everything else in),
any council photos/video,
and
a GSV link to the location.

By all means make reference to this thread, but forum rules are one case, one thread.

Hi- Unfortunately my appeal was unsuccessful. The above did not work.

Thanks for the help and advice though.

Hi- Unfortunately my appeal was unsuccessful. The above did not work.

Thanks for the help and advice though
.

"appeal" - If you mean your reps to the Council (rather than an appeal to the tribubal), then please post the rejection from the Council as you may have a case to take the matter to tribunal.

Yes I mean the representations. I’ve paid the fine now so not planning to take it to appeal

Yes I mean the representations. I’ve paid the fine now so not planning to take it to appeal
You should have shown the NOR first.
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

what does that mean? 'shown the NOR'?